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	<title>Comments on: Helen Zille diagnosed with Acute Objectionitis</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/</link>
	<description>Cartoon Blog on Politics, Economics and wonky Life in general</description>
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		<title>By: Cartoon - NPA drops Zuma charges and South Africa arrives in Africa &#124; Wonkie</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1095</link>
		<dc:creator>Cartoon - NPA drops Zuma charges and South Africa arrives in Africa &#124; Wonkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1095</guid>
		<description>[...] hopefully and finally ends the saga of the meaningless trial of Jacob Zuma. No doubt the opposition DA and Helen Zille will be objecting till the cows come home from the ANC parties this week - no doubt trying to highlight the fact that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] hopefully and finally ends the saga of the meaningless trial of Jacob Zuma. No doubt the opposition DA and Helen Zille will be objecting till the cows come home from the ANC parties this week &#8211; no doubt trying to highlight the fact that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1080</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1080</guid>
		<description>Hi Xolani

I wouldn&#039;t beat the opposition up too much on the law ... you know glass houses and all that!

I thought you&#039;d be thrilled to read about a positive article written by a &#039;minority&#039; on the subject of ... hard to believe but true, Jacob Zuma. You can read that here: http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/newsletter_archive/breakfast_with_jacob_zuma.html

Let&#039;s have a beer after the election ... if you win!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Xolani</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t beat the opposition up too much on the law &#8230; you know glass houses and all that!</p>
<p>I thought you&#8217;d be thrilled to read about a positive article written by a &#8216;minority&#8217; on the subject of &#8230; hard to believe but true, Jacob Zuma. You can read that here: <a href="http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/newsletter_archive/breakfast_with_jacob_zuma.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/newsletter_archive/breakfast_with_jacob_zuma.html</a></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s have a beer after the election &#8230; if you win!!</p>
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		<title>By: Xolani P</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1079</link>
		<dc:creator>Xolani P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1079</guid>
		<description>Great discussion Steve. Keep well. Nice weekend. 
Vote ANC,  we have the interest of SA and the poor people at heart. Their interest is best served by an ANC government only. We entered into a contract with the people. We will deliver on what we promised, even if it means to refuse the Dalai Lama a VISA in order to get the means to deliver what we promised our people!
We will speed up the issue of land redistribution and rural development under a Zuma administration, because we believe the land belongs to all, and not just a few minority (like in Zimbabwe). We have tried willing-seller willing buyer but it is not working, hence the need for more serious measures.

We understand the role of the Opposition Steve, but we wont be tolerant of their disregard for the rule of law (something they accuse us of - but are actually practicing it on a daily basis with the help of the media), and their selective application of this principle (the rule of law) to advance their course.

We received a majority mandate from the voters in the Western Cape during the last election, and we cannot be accused of wanting to unseat Zille, who got far lesser votes that the ANC in that province. She grabbed power by the formation of a fractious coalition government, but we know that we got the majority vote there in Western Cape.
We understand that Mr Nqula is no office bearer of the ANC and was given his package of 33million by the independent board of SAA, chaired by Prof Jakes Gerwel. The ANC has got nothing to do with this.

Enjoy Steve. Nice weekend!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion Steve. Keep well. Nice weekend.<br />
Vote ANC,  we have the interest of SA and the poor people at heart. Their interest is best served by an ANC government only. We entered into a contract with the people. We will deliver on what we promised, even if it means to refuse the Dalai Lama a VISA in order to get the means to deliver what we promised our people!<br />
We will speed up the issue of land redistribution and rural development under a Zuma administration, because we believe the land belongs to all, and not just a few minority (like in Zimbabwe). We have tried willing-seller willing buyer but it is not working, hence the need for more serious measures.</p>
<p>We understand the role of the Opposition Steve, but we wont be tolerant of their disregard for the rule of law (something they accuse us of &#8211; but are actually practicing it on a daily basis with the help of the media), and their selective application of this principle (the rule of law) to advance their course.</p>
<p>We received a majority mandate from the voters in the Western Cape during the last election, and we cannot be accused of wanting to unseat Zille, who got far lesser votes that the ANC in that province. She grabbed power by the formation of a fractious coalition government, but we know that we got the majority vote there in Western Cape.<br />
We understand that Mr Nqula is no office bearer of the ANC and was given his package of 33million by the independent board of SAA, chaired by Prof Jakes Gerwel. The ANC has got nothing to do with this.</p>
<p>Enjoy Steve. Nice weekend!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1077</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1077</guid>
		<description>Hi Xolani

Good to hear from you again. 

If I could believe that the legal processes of South Africa were free of political influence, I&#039;d relax. I don&#039;t think they are. Not that that&#039;s surprising. Legal processes across the world are influenced by powerful lobbies and organisations.

In South Africa, the media seem saturated with &#039;crime&#039; stories and we kill each other at a frightening rate, you must agree. Now, a few people on this blog have suggested an anti ANC plot by &quot;minorities&quot;.

Maybe it looks like that. But Xolani, the role of the opposition is to keep the heat up on the ruling party.  Look how the ANC tried to topple the DA in Cape Town when it lost control there.

To suggest that Helen back off as Zuma apparently (that word for Bobo, I didn&#039;t personally hear Mr Zuma actually say those words, so if this is also just a rumour, I apologise), to suggest Helen back off is to ask the official opposition and the media not to do their jobs: to follow up on every whiff of a problem in the public interest. It&#039;s certainly not in my interest for Mr Ngqula to whip a quick R33m out of SAA.

Our brave new democracy should thank God for the DA&#039;s tenacity. It keeps the ruling party on its toes.

Do you think there would be more or less corruption if there was no official opposition? Hopefully the answer to that question in any country is obvious.

Society&#039;s success rests on the many checks and balances in every aspect: between parent and child, headmaster and teacher, policeman and citizen, government and opposition.

To wish otherwise is to forego democracy.

For the ANC to complain about excessive anti ANC rhetoric is its right.

But, Xolani, I&#039;m not anti ANC. 

If Jacob Zuma becomes President and just deals with crime and corruption, I&#039;ll be thrilled and the opposition will lose a major plank of its criticism of government.  If the ANC goes on to address the weaknesses in the education system to slow down the terrible flood of dependents on state handouts (based on my and my fellow citizens&#039; tax payments), then we can truly build this great country.

I would prefer Jacob Zuma to be found innocent in a court of law as against a series of secret meetings which appear to be more about how to tell the public about a decision already taken without damaging the ANC&#039;s reputation too much.

But even that is not relevant if the ANC runs a government that deals with crime and corruption and ensures the functional education and health of our people.  Most thinking South Africans will probably forget about Zuma&#039;s past if he and the ANC builds a great present and future.

Happy voting Xolani. It&#039;s been a good conversation except for Bobo&#039;s racism accusation. That was bloody annoying.

All best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Xolani</p>
<p>Good to hear from you again. </p>
<p>If I could believe that the legal processes of South Africa were free of political influence, I&#8217;d relax. I don&#8217;t think they are. Not that that&#8217;s surprising. Legal processes across the world are influenced by powerful lobbies and organisations.</p>
<p>In South Africa, the media seem saturated with &#8216;crime&#8217; stories and we kill each other at a frightening rate, you must agree. Now, a few people on this blog have suggested an anti ANC plot by &#8220;minorities&#8221;.</p>
<p>Maybe it looks like that. But Xolani, the role of the opposition is to keep the heat up on the ruling party.  Look how the ANC tried to topple the DA in Cape Town when it lost control there.</p>
<p>To suggest that Helen back off as Zuma apparently (that word for Bobo, I didn&#8217;t personally hear Mr Zuma actually say those words, so if this is also just a rumour, I apologise), to suggest Helen back off is to ask the official opposition and the media not to do their jobs: to follow up on every whiff of a problem in the public interest. It&#8217;s certainly not in my interest for Mr Ngqula to whip a quick R33m out of SAA.</p>
<p>Our brave new democracy should thank God for the DA&#8217;s tenacity. It keeps the ruling party on its toes.</p>
<p>Do you think there would be more or less corruption if there was no official opposition? Hopefully the answer to that question in any country is obvious.</p>
<p>Society&#8217;s success rests on the many checks and balances in every aspect: between parent and child, headmaster and teacher, policeman and citizen, government and opposition.</p>
<p>To wish otherwise is to forego democracy.</p>
<p>For the ANC to complain about excessive anti ANC rhetoric is its right.</p>
<p>But, Xolani, I&#8217;m not anti ANC. </p>
<p>If Jacob Zuma becomes President and just deals with crime and corruption, I&#8217;ll be thrilled and the opposition will lose a major plank of its criticism of government.  If the ANC goes on to address the weaknesses in the education system to slow down the terrible flood of dependents on state handouts (based on my and my fellow citizens&#8217; tax payments), then we can truly build this great country.</p>
<p>I would prefer Jacob Zuma to be found innocent in a court of law as against a series of secret meetings which appear to be more about how to tell the public about a decision already taken without damaging the ANC&#8217;s reputation too much.</p>
<p>But even that is not relevant if the ANC runs a government that deals with crime and corruption and ensures the functional education and health of our people.  Most thinking South Africans will probably forget about Zuma&#8217;s past if he and the ANC builds a great present and future.</p>
<p>Happy voting Xolani. It&#8217;s been a good conversation except for Bobo&#8217;s racism accusation. That was bloody annoying.</p>
<p>All best.</p>
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		<title>By: Xolani P</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1075</link>
		<dc:creator>Xolani P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1075</guid>
		<description>@ Steve. You said &quot;the ANC wants to stay in power at all costs.&quot;;  &quot;the ANC has not DELIVERED AT ALL in education and safety &amp; security&quot;; &quot; Yengeni spent a pathetically short time in prison&quot;; &quot;Winnie Mandela on the ANC&#039;s list&quot;; &quot; ANC will ensure that their office bearers AVOID COURT and wont stand trial&quot;; &quot;the ANC deliberatly delays the release of crime figures&quot;; etc.

We have answered you on all these issues. We endeavoured to explain to you how these processes are working, and how these issues were dealt with through processes of constitutional dictates, namely the courts, and or other departmental procedures. 
You took names of individuals that are not even deployees of the ANC and you apportioned the blame for their corrupt activities on the ANC as a party. These individuals includes, the two West Rand Policeman, Judge Hlope, Mc Bride, etc.
Steve, honestly my brother face it, are you not just anti ANC? You just refuse to understand that all of these have got nothing to do with the ANC. 
Your judgement becomes so clouded by your anti ANC feelings that you are unable to differentiate between a spade and a fork.
You just screen any source of information you come accross and grab any Anti ANC headline and peddle it unceremoniously. 
You cannot just do that Steve, thats wrong. You cannot just preach &quot;respect for country and the rule of law&quot; when it suits you. But when it is expected of you to respect the rule of law in instances such as the case against Zuma, Winnie Mandela&#039;s name on the ANC list, Yengeni&#039;s parole etc, then you tend to be dismissive of the very same principle (respect for rule of law).
This is not arguing fairly Steve. The basis from which we argue must be level, it must be the same.
Otherwise we might as well end the discussion right here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Steve. You said &#8220;the ANC wants to stay in power at all costs.&#8221;;  &#8220;the ANC has not DELIVERED AT ALL in education and safety &amp; security&#8221;; &#8221; Yengeni spent a pathetically short time in prison&#8221;; &#8220;Winnie Mandela on the ANC&#8217;s list&#8221;; &#8221; ANC will ensure that their office bearers AVOID COURT and wont stand trial&#8221;; &#8220;the ANC deliberatly delays the release of crime figures&#8221;; etc.</p>
<p>We have answered you on all these issues. We endeavoured to explain to you how these processes are working, and how these issues were dealt with through processes of constitutional dictates, namely the courts, and or other departmental procedures.<br />
You took names of individuals that are not even deployees of the ANC and you apportioned the blame for their corrupt activities on the ANC as a party. These individuals includes, the two West Rand Policeman, Judge Hlope, Mc Bride, etc.<br />
Steve, honestly my brother face it, are you not just anti ANC? You just refuse to understand that all of these have got nothing to do with the ANC.<br />
Your judgement becomes so clouded by your anti ANC feelings that you are unable to differentiate between a spade and a fork.<br />
You just screen any source of information you come accross and grab any Anti ANC headline and peddle it unceremoniously.<br />
You cannot just do that Steve, thats wrong. You cannot just preach &#8220;respect for country and the rule of law&#8221; when it suits you. But when it is expected of you to respect the rule of law in instances such as the case against Zuma, Winnie Mandela&#8217;s name on the ANC list, Yengeni&#8217;s parole etc, then you tend to be dismissive of the very same principle (respect for rule of law).<br />
This is not arguing fairly Steve. The basis from which we argue must be level, it must be the same.<br />
Otherwise we might as well end the discussion right here.</p>
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		<title>By: Xolani P</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1074</link>
		<dc:creator>Xolani P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1074</guid>
		<description>@ Steve. If your arguments are driven by your &quot;passion for the country and the rule of law&quot;:
This was your response on my plea that you should allow the courts to do their work, to respect the constitution, and not to preclude on matters that are subjudicae.This was your response:
1) &quot;The courts: I hear your points. Unfortunately, I don’t agree. All political parties and people with lots of money will use lawyers to stay out of court. Lawyers are paid to find methods to postpone the matter, introduce technicalities, obfuscate and prevaricate until eventually either one of the opposing parties runs out of cash, a key individual dies or an out of court settlement is reached. Hence the secret meetings taking place this week.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Steve. If your arguments are driven by your &#8220;passion for the country and the rule of law&#8221;:<br />
This was your response on my plea that you should allow the courts to do their work, to respect the constitution, and not to preclude on matters that are subjudicae.This was your response:<br />
1) &#8220;The courts: I hear your points. Unfortunately, I don’t agree. All political parties and people with lots of money will use lawyers to stay out of court. Lawyers are paid to find methods to postpone the matter, introduce technicalities, obfuscate and prevaricate until eventually either one of the opposing parties runs out of cash, a key individual dies or an out of court settlement is reached. Hence the secret meetings taking place this week.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1069</guid>
		<description>As has been pointed out to me, my arguments may not have been particularly cogent over the period of this blog, driven by passion for the country and for the rule of law, not the rule of ANC propoganda.

Doron Isaacs from UCT wrote an article today in PoliticsWeb which makes the points that need to be made with supporting evidence and history.

For those who are open to alternative views: Pls read it here: http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123912&amp;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As has been pointed out to me, my arguments may not have been particularly cogent over the period of this blog, driven by passion for the country and for the rule of law, not the rule of ANC propoganda.</p>
<p>Doron Isaacs from UCT wrote an article today in PoliticsWeb which makes the points that need to be made with supporting evidence and history.</p>
<p>For those who are open to alternative views: Pls read it here: <a href="http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123912&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail" rel="nofollow">http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123912&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1066</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1066</guid>
		<description>Hi Bobo

This is so much fun. I suppose this article was made up by the DA. I suppose all the reports about the disgusting behaviour of VIP cops are ALL just racist, anti ANC rumours. See here: http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123700&amp;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bobo</p>
<p>This is so much fun. I suppose this article was made up by the DA. I suppose all the reports about the disgusting behaviour of VIP cops are ALL just racist, anti ANC rumours. See here: <a href="http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123700&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail" rel="nofollow">http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123700&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1065</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1065</guid>
		<description>Hi Bobo

Another article about Bishop Tutu&#039;s comments on eTV. He criticised the ANC as well, so does that make him a racist too? See it here: http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123642&amp;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bobo</p>
<p>Another article about Bishop Tutu&#8217;s comments on eTV. He criticised the ANC as well, so does that make him a racist too? See it here: <a href="http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123642&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail" rel="nofollow">http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123642&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitis/#comment-1064</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wonkie.com/2009/03/23/helen-zille-diagnosed-with-acute-objectionitist/#comment-1064</guid>
		<description>Hi Bobo

I don&#039;t have to read just anti ANC articles either. Jeremy Cronin&#039;s article (here: http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123701&amp;sn=Marketingweb%20detail) adds an interesting perspective to the mis-managed Dalai Lama affair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bobo</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have to read just anti ANC articles either. Jeremy Cronin&#8217;s article (here: <a href="http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123701&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail" rel="nofollow">http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=123701&#038;sn=Marketingweb%20detail</a>) adds an interesting perspective to the mis-managed Dalai Lama affair.</p>
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