Spokesperson Castro Ngobese of The National Union of Mineworkers, NUMSA, recently called for the nationalisation of the wealth of Tokyo Sexwale and South Africa’s richest man, Patrice Motsepe.
Motsepe, with some R14.2 Billion to his name, was top of South Africa’s Rich list which was published in the Sunday Times last weekend.
The disparity between rich and poor in South Africa has been a cause for concern for quite some time. President Jacob Zuma just last month announced that the country needs to do more to close the gap. The recent union comments come as no surprise given that South Africa has recently overtaken Brazil as the most unequal country in the world.
While Wonkie is sure that Tokyo and Patrice will be quite happy to part with their relatively new-found wealth (haha), Wonkie wonders whether these union representatives actually think about what they say before they say it. Nationalising private individual’s wealth is certainly not the way forward in South Africa. If anything, the required change in South Africa can be brought about by drastic changes in the tax regime.
When Scandinavian countries, for example, wanted to achieve the goal of a middle-class majority – which is what Wonkie imagines the unions would like in South Africa – they put in place taxes for high earning individuals of up to 60 to 80% of income earned above a certain level. This certainly has a negative impact in terms of people’s willingness to work hard after reaching a certain income level. Nationalising private individual’s wealth however is quite likely to decrease people’s willingness to work altogether – both for the rich and the poor alike.
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Well at least their targets are black businessmen. I think that’s progress!
Personally I feel that amounts of money in the billions must be regarded as obscene by the poor but the government give the poor the impression that all they need to do is print more as required.In the 60’s,in Brittain,if I recall correctly,the MP’s rode bicycles to parliament to help alleviate the overhead costs of government.I don’t expect our leaders to go to this length but if they show restraint,which they definitely don’t do,they might appease the genuinely poor masses.government is so irresponsible they’re obscene and yet the masses still vote them in.
The manner and the speed in which people accumulate wealth in this country is obscene and immoral- And God help us to reverse this trend least another liberation struggle will be unleashed on this country. How can anybody justify the accumulation of so much money in a country where more then 80% of the population still lives in abject poverty. Surely there is something wrong with a system that can in such a short time deepen the margins between rich and poor. This really calls for some intervention in the manner in which economic policies are developed and especially how the so called BEE is implements and its consequences to date.
This is also not only a BEE problem – since white people continue to amass wealth and as a group hardly sacrificed any economic power they held. So don’t want to create the impression that blacks business people are getting rich at the expense of the whites. It is a matter of a few people getting obscenely rich and benefiting from the largesse of their political connections etc. The whole system is rotten fraudulent and exploitative. Never seen anything like this. This whole government is to be blamed for all of this. No problem with people getting rich but please let us be able to justify their wealth in some way or the other. Just sitting on white controlled boards are really not the answer. These people have sold their souls and the future of their communities for what.
Was it not Tokyo running that Johnnic scam? I lost money on that investment. Problem is, how does one prove the amassment of those billions of rands. Now, the shoe’s are on the other foot, why isn’t Julius Malema commenting?????
Yes, I’ll agree to nationalisating super rich people. I’ve lost mine.
To nationalize the wealth creators is the shortest way to total poverty for all! Fact is that the poor will always be with us…Jesus said so when Judas wanted to “nationalise and give to the poor” and what He said WILL ALWAYS be true – no matter what!
Looks like the masses can’t learn at all – what is left of ESKOM? Is there any thing managed by goverment that makes money? If govermemnt manages Sexwales’s mine tomorrow, they will close next week because of missmanagement. Let the businessmen run their businesses and and let the workers do their work!
Fact is, the masses do no know how to manage money…the lotto already made that clear! Show me one lotto winner who still have his millions…they ALL boozed it out!
One thing about Sexwale…he made most his money during the so called “unfair apartheid”!
It’s time people take note that apartheid never opressed anybody – it’s a lie out of hell! Most black millionaires we have today, already made it during that “unfair apartheid years”!
During apartheid, corrupt people were kept out of positions of trust, that’s all and the way this corrupt ANC steal from the poor today, is proof of the fact that it was a good thing to keep those kind of people out of positions of trust as they are not to be trusted with the tax-money that belong to the poor and also come from the poor….
Problem is, the masses do not understand anything at all!
poor guys,but anyway sharing is caring.hopefully poor people will benefit out of this
lipstick ,
God will never reverse the situation…in the first place, 99,9999% do NOT believe in GOD even while in poverty! If everybody was rich, then NOBODY would have a need for God..therefore …
Gen. 3:17… cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground;
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
Pay attention to the words “for thy sake”…God is hoping that because of the sorrows, evil man will realize that he needs God !
Oh for goodness sake Dirk Muller, pull your head out your ass!
You probably blame the devil for yourself not being rich…
Start using your head a little, maybe you’ll have a chance of getting there.
.YAWN…And I suppose Dirk, that you’re the only one that truly believes in god, everyone else out there are merely faking it? Sounds to me like you have serious issues my friend. But… more importantly though, why bring up your imaginary friend at all? This isn’t a cartoon about deities, a deity or religion.
“It’s time people take note that apartheid never opressed anybody”, What a foolish statement. I am very dissappointed with your statement Dirk, how old are you? You cant measure the demage of apartheid by the acheivements of Tokyo and Motsepe, thats incorrect. You must have enjoyed that ragime, that did not allow another race to vote, that coused segragation, that held our political leaders in prison, that called black people Kaffirs. I could mention more. I relly think you are a racist and if you dont except Christ you will rott in hell!!
You take from the rich give to the poor, it merely slows down the rich for a season while they regather it from the poor who squander it. @ Dirk you are right about the lotto winners and it will be the same for re-distributed ‘riches’. If it is not in the mindset it won’t linger long.
SA is taking over from Zim for prize pratt comments from political and community leaders. Foot and mouth has moved across the border.
No one is prepared to speak truth these day,what for,I wonder if people understand the diverse b/n Government and the then ANC now Association of National Criminals#,to nationalise Motsepe can be wrong,for Sexwale carry on. South African youth is sinking deeply in hot water,Madiba thina sizoyimela,siyithethe inyani ngezwe lethu,uhlale wazi ukuthi noma kukubi iqiniso lingelethu,kealeboha
U so called Political leaders,what is it that happens in you when you see, the people from rural area’s who uneducatedly voted for you suffer like that,are u happy,what makes Politicians happy?
Dirk=Kaizer+naidoo, you guys are racist cowards. You fear the truth and makes everything that sounds like you to be good. I am sure non of you is over 15 years old, well’ judging by your comments.
I think this is just a funny ambitious story made by some wanna be populists in the Numsa legion. But then it still makes you think doesnt it?
Motsepe is the one with the degrees and he always had money and worked hard, as his father had a business since patrice was young, the other guy is the one that has the dubious wealth, we’d all like to know how he acquired it.
thats rubbish
Dikmol
Did you actually attemt to say something? Are you a politician? They have the habit to utter a lot of words saying nothing at all…
How can you call me racist..I am taking Sexwale’s side in this matter…at least he is a job-creator…let the businessmen run their businesses…let them make money and pay taxes..large taxes from wich the poor also benefit! 🙂
Noc
The poor will ALWAYS be with us! Forget about the lotto and forget about a world where everybody is rich and everybody is the boss…it’s just not possible. Maybe you are the one with your head up somewhere where you need to pull it out!
PaladinBob
You are right, it’s a caroon…but about the real world, not about the dreamworld like cartoons usually are about! 🙂
And my God is not in my imagination..He is as real as this world wich is part of His creation. And like the people chose to let the murderer free and have Him crusified, so they do still today by choosing leaders who milk them dry in stead of choosing men of God to lead them to prosperity! To the land of milk and honey…but no they choose murderes who lead them back Egipt..the house of slawery!
Even if we devide all the money on the planet equal between all the people on the planet, most of them will rush to spend it! Soon the ones who had it before, will have it back again, as it is in their nature to collect from those who want to spend! 🙂 This is the mechanics of money .. 🙂
Dirk Muller, You’re a nutcase. Not because you are white, or because you are a rightist, or because you’re a racist, but because you are dumb shit stupid. Your views about religion, about capitalism, about banks, about “lazy Africa” and such nonsense are so way out you should actually be locked up in a padded cell, not to protect you, but to protect the walls. You don’t make sense in anything you say. And quoting the bible to prove anything you say is the MOST stupidest thing you can do.
Leonecole
Again you never said anything at all…prove me wrong..or better..prove me to be as dumb as you say.. 😀
Do you realize that guys like Sexwale pay up to 55% of their income to taxes?
The only way to avoid taxes is to invest in a mine or something wich is good for many around and so he becomes richer but pay more taxes all the time while in the same time invest in other things that bring about jobs etc…and so it carries on for the super rich..we need people like that – that’s a fact!
But these people WORK for what they have! LEAVE them alone – let them run their businesses and generate wealth and pay taxes – not for the ANC to steal, but to make life better for the poor!
This is how capitalism is suppose to work..but corruption and incompetency etc. makes any system fail!
Lets Just Paint a Picture of the whole debate instead ,,,,
You Get 2 Types of People In both The Rich and Poor Groups
The Rich Group ….
Those That Worked Really hard for There money and save all the time … and You get those that Got There money Through illegal activities and corruption.. we all know who they are …
Then You Get The Poor , 2 goups as well ..
.. The suckers been riped off by the Corrupted People .(..i.e. ANC Supportes )
and then you get The Lazy, Dumb and Drunks .. who have only themselves to blame ..
See .. The Picture Speaks for itself …
but alas .. The Dumb will still not understand …
… Hmmm …. Leonecole
It would be nice to mentioning a Solution or Views .. rather that Attacking everybody else …
I think he lost it. As a country we need to encourage entrepreneurship. What I will agree to is for these stinging rich guys to pay an appropriet tax.
Dikmol
Wealth and riches have zip to do with race – it is a mindset. Instead of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, governments do this very well, rather let governments become accountable for what they have collected and with that empower the poor to improve their lot – i.e train the poor to think differently about money and its risidule effects. If any person is ‘obscenely’ rich then he must be paying some sort of taxes. If the belief is that the ‘obscene’ riches came from dishonest gain, then investigate and let the law do its bit. I have never read anywhere that the Sheriff of Nottingham ended up living a life equal to Robin Hood because Robin Hood was taking from the rich to give to the poor – the rich will bounce back, if they are honest, from other gainful activity. If dishonest from corruption in another place unless they have been incarcerated legally and not just had their ill gotten gains stolen from them in turn.
Wow, that’s ridiculous and stupid cause,these guys earned their wealth trough hard word and dedication, if Unions stop promoting go-slows and lazziness,then all their mmebers may be the next Tokiyo 7 Matsepe’s of this country. stop the Donuts approach
Hi Wonks. I thought NUMSA was the South African Metal Worker’s Union and the South African Mine Worker’s Union was NUM?????
I do not beleive the President (Zuma) that he is really worried about our (South Africa) current gini co-efficient, while, He and his Ministers are the one’s causing the matter. How?, because they acquire material things like very expensive cars out of the plight of the poor. As the cadre of the Communist league, I felt so sold out by my secretary general (Dr. B. Nzimande) for not practising what he preached as a real Communist.
They must start with themselves by giving all those ten percents they forced workers to contribute to SACP BACK TO THE WORKER SINC THAT WAS MONEY THEY DDN`T HAVE.
people must learn to use their heads and stop being beggers,these guys worked for what they have.the reason we are poor is because we want hand outs and always want free bees,no wonder why africans are oppressed its because they cant use their thick skulls and try every possible thing to make their lives worthwhile even if the wealth is nationalised they wont do nothing to improve themselves coz they are used to be spoon fed like babies,who would die of hunger with a bowl full of food at their feet still waiting to be fed(i give up on such people like those calling for nationalisation)God said each man should work,not that some should work for others.
IF they wer saying dad da guys must tip us as to how did dey get wer dey r.so da lerona we can wrk our way up.phela de is no more manna 4rom haven………!
I think it’s stupid and uncalled for. Now I’m having second thoughts about becoming a successfull businessman and thus being rich there-after.
i think to nationlize individuals wealth is only good if personnel agrieng with that, again to my sit i think it motivate people to keep improving thinking one day will be there.
Tim,
Do I get you right? Were you/workers forced to contibute to the SACP? How were you/workers forced? Who forced you/workers ? Tell us more please?
One thing about africans tha I don’t understand …one taxi arrive in a township with 200 000 residents and then that one taxi with 10 people manage to force the 200 000 residents to do whatever the 10 people with the taxi want them to do…how does this work?
Chanderpaul,
Why vote for him then? Why vote for any ANC member then? NOT one of them ever cared about the poor – eventually you will all have to agree that you were beter off in the past before the so called “liberation”…there are nou more laws than ever before..just the police are to useless and stupid to enforce them.. 😀
Wonkie I agree with you that the nationalisation of individual’s wealth is not the correct prescription for our ailing economy. There are various options available to the country to reverse the runaway trends of inequalities within the country. Bearing in mind that some of our citizen’s inequality and/or poverty is self-inflicted, such as irredeemable gamblers, reckless spenders who engage in conspicuous consumption and criminals who hatch get-rich-quickly schemes; these can be safely excluded from our econometrix model. The first prescription the economy needs is to establish a “CEILING” and a “FLOOR”. The ceiling is that level of income above which no one should be; any income above the ceiling should be taxed 100%. Whereas the floor will represent that level of income below which no one should be. This system will take care of those willing to work and exclude those lazy citizens of our country who would not want to take-up any job because the remuniration in that sector is very low. Domestic servants, farmworkers etc will benefit from such an arrangement and no one will be entitled to any basic income grant. The guiding policy should be “Those that are abled bodied and do not work shall not eat”. The second prescription will be the institution of “INHERITANCE”; no doubt this institution needs to be modified. It is an institution that harbours many lazy people. The bulk of the inheritance funds should be available to the state for re-distribution particularly to persons who have been responsible for the creation of that wealth. For example, people who have been instrumental in creating the wealths of the Openheimers, Motsepes and Segwales are often left destitute after their demise while their families leave in obscene opulance.
Phelandaba wa Sekgale
Looks like you have a ceiling above your thoughts…To tax somebody 100% is to ensure only the only the gamblers, the idiots like the zuma mamparras who can ‘t even run their household budgets will stay behind…all the rest will just leave to do business somewhere else like what happened in Zim when the idiot mugabe mamparra made it law to sell everything below cost at half prise! It shows that mugabe can’t even run a supermarket but the zims wanted him to be leader and run their country!
I wish I can figure out on what merrits africans choose their leaders as brains and wisdom surely is not what africans look for in a leader! 😀
“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
~~~~ Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931
Nationalisation can be done under one circumstance and that is Nationalising mines and leave them under worker control in the form of co-operatives. Not this nationalisation that the youth league is chanting cause that is only a bailout of Motsepe & Sexwale.
Mzulungile Cabanga
Firstly, a “worker” is somebody who likes to work while a “labourer” is a lazy and stupid somebody who needs to be told to work – africa is a place of laboureres, not workers!
One thing nobody in africa seems to understand is the fact that some people have brains and others don’t! Labourers just don’t have what it takes to manage and plan a mine so how the hell do you expect the mine to stay profitable with idiots running it?
It’s one thing to dig a hole after under supervision after somebody told you to dig the hole and where to dig that hole but quite another thing to run the finances of a mine without supervision or somebody telling you to do so!
Within 3 years after nationalising the mines, there will be nothing left of it and all those who work there will be roaming the streets to steal whatever is still left to get stolen!
Mzulungile Cabanga, If the labourers had what it takes to run big business, how come they are labourers and not CEO’s?
But if you fools do nationalise the mines, I hope you start at the sexwales and the pandors as black owned mines surely are also the ones care the least about their workforce!
Sorry Dirk it seems to me as if you are the biggest fool here and you still have the arrogance of your forefathers who raped Africa of its resources. There is only one problem with you and that is racism which I’m afraid will never prevail again. How can you call Africans fools that is disrespectful from a person who engages himself in debates of this caliber. You fool!!!
If I call a fool a genius, I’d be a liar and a bigger fool than what any african can ever be.
You keep makin a fool of yourself every time , FOOL! It was and still is the english speakers who steal africa’s reasources ( resources africans would never even have known about – and still don’t understand. ) and still do as they are still loyal to their queen on the island. Was it not for us AFRIKANER BOERE who protected it, there would have been nothing left long asgo! Now with your stupid corrupt government in power, it will all be given away to the chincs soon! Who will you blame then…us Boere again? YOU ARE SUCH FOOLS that I can’t even find words to explain it! YOU POOR FOOLS! Afrikaners don’t own mines..it’s mostly the sexwales and pandor’s and oppenheimers and english speakers! Most of the time us Boere are working shoulder to shoulder in those mine with you blacks! YOU POOR FOOL..go have you eyes tested or take that sunglasses with the chrome frames off that you think make you look so fancy so you can see what’s happening around you! 😉 Those sunglases make you wander in darkness even in bright daylight! YOU FOOL!