Zulu traditional bull cartoon

Zulu traditional bull cartoon

Zulus and the Traditional Bull cartoon

Animal Rights Africa are suing Zulu King Goodwill Zwelithini on the grounds that the Ukweshwama ceremony in which a bull is killed is cruel. This organisation and other animal rights activists have agreed to meet Zulu groups in South Africa in an effort to stop the ritual.

A spokesperson for the activist group quoted an eye-witness when describing the incident:

“Dozens [of people] trampled the bellowing, groaning bull, wrenched its head around by the horns to try to break its neck, pulled its tongue out, stuffed sand in its mouth and even tried to tie its penis in a knot.

“Gleaming with sweat, they raised their arms in triumph and sang when the bull finally succumbed.”

According to the BBC, royal spokesman Nhlanhla Mtaka said the killing was a highly symbolic way of thanking God. He further went on to say that he had been attending the ceremony for twenty years and that the activists misrepresented it with their comments.

Wonkie wonders why it is not possible to: “… hear young men and old people singing Zulu hymns and people sitting down and teaching each other about the value and history of the Zulus,” without torturing some innocent animal?

Is it the act of killing that brings people together? Could the bringing together of people be even stronger if we killed a human instead of a bull? Or perhaps the sense of unity would be at its most intense if we surround and exterminate a small ethnic minority. These are all points on the line of tradition and it’s only a question of where you are on the line.

The argument that this is part of Zulu culture and tradition and should therefore be preserved as-is is utter rubbish. If the rest of the world thought like that, widows would still be throwing themselves on their husband’s funeral pyres in India. Slavery would still be considered normal practice and part of the traditional American lifestyle. Women would still not be able to vote in Arab nations. Female circumcision would not have been banned – oh wait, that’s not banned yet – it is still a tradition too. Only fools and cowards don’t question culture and tradition.

If the Universe holds true to maintaining its own karmic tradition, those involved in the custom of killing bulls in such a cruel manner can surely look forward to having their own necks broken in a similar fashion to appease some god or other… hopefully sooner rather than later.

What is your view on maintaining culture and traditions?

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Comments

  1. Geetha Arekal says:

    Why any life should be treated so barbarically by an other life? Are we no more humans or dont value life? Imagine one of our children being tortured the same way as all of us are children of God! Hope people get enough educated to avoid these dance of devil. Respect the life to lead a compatible life and save earth.

  2. this is pure cruelty to animals , how can the responsible authorities alow this to happen , this is why we Africans we dont develop we stick to the past instead of going forward .
    this should be the last of this barbaric event .
    God help us

  3. Musa Dlamini says:

    Dis is Zulu culture, got nothing to do with any1 else, can u please live us alone, and pratice our rituals in peace….everything white do is considered right but if it is done by black person we got whoa…..i dn’t understand what is da fuss about?

  4. hw dare do they question culture? we find it and we will leave it!

  5. Its been a Zulu Tradition to sacrifice animals I don’t know why there is such a big fuss about this. this killing of the bull happens only once a year. The thing is Europeans will never appreciate African culture and we should not even try to explain it as Africans, if they don’t like what we do over here then they should get out of our continent and go and hug animals elsewhere. and can you please stop saying Slavery was a tradition, it was not a tradition it was crime which since most european countries never apologised for it will be there come judgement day!!

  6. eventually the whole world will be filled with vegetarians, leave the Zulu’s and their culture alone no-one questions other cultures, I bet if this was done in England or anywhere in the world, it would regarded as an act of bravery(killing a bull with bare hands) they would even make a movie about this, to glorify this if it was their culture.

  7. Customs, rituals, traditions or whatever you may name it, is all part of the inventions of man, killing an animal under the Law of Moses was to make sacrifices to God to forgive or cover your sin. To kill an animal now for that purpose to ask God for special favours does not work anymore, because He has made Himself a sacrifice to erase sin forever, if you now confess your sin to Him, He will forgive you, and not the slaughtering of an innocent bull or goat. Let us get some light to the traditionalist in South Africa.

  8. Babaric, G-D forgive them, cannot understand the logic or the motive. Get them educated please or else we in this country will be lost. If you dont show mercy how can you expect mercy.

  9. If culture and traditious of one group must be respected, then every body’s culture and traditions must be respected.
    You can’t emprace two cultires, pick all the lekker one’s and condem all the others. My God said I don’t want your animal sacrifises, I want you!

  10. Barbaric and cruel.

  11. This should be banned and we should pull our resources to some other needy projects, this was custom when 90% of the people (Zulus)had the land to farm not when all of us are dependant on shops,the custom must indeed be defined its symolic gesture meaning then, not in the modern poor world!!

  12. Nkutu William Moalosi says:

    Quite interesting how non-vegetarians can raise so much over this ritual. When did the West really respect animals, when they fail to respect human lives? Is this invented racism or a cover-up to see anything & everything African as bad, because it’s termed Blak? How long should we stomach this blatant affront to everything we do? This topic should not even have been raised. It is not worth the pinch of salt. I am not even Zulu, but this is UNPALATABLE and anti-African.

  13. if you have not noticed ityet the end of the world is now ,turn away from your sins and rituals and follow the living God who sacrificed his life for cleansing the sin of the mankind and if everyone can follow God we can live in peace and harmony .Thanks

  14. AFRICAN CONTINENT IS FULL OF VARIOUS FORM OF TRADITIONAL BELIEF, THIS STILL KEEPS THE CONTINENT MORE SANE THAN THE OTHERS IN THE GLOBE. PLS THIS SO CALL ANIMAL RIGHTS FIGHTER SHOULD LOOK FOR A BETTER CAUSE AND LET AFRICA BE.
    LASTLY, THEIR LACK OF TRADITIONAL BELIEVE HAS LEFT THEIR SOCIETY IN A DECADENT FORM, SO SORRY FOR THEM

  15. Please can people stop sticking their noses where they don’t belong and mind their own businesses. We have been doing this for years and we will continue…like it or not. We don’t need anyone’s opinion, just live your modern life and leave us alone.

  16. Geetha Arekal says:

    The discussion is not about any culture, human race or the creed. This is absolutely against the rituals in the name of pleasing God. Whoever does it have no right whatsoever tortuing a living being to satisfy God. Most of us eat meat but have you ever seen people dancing around to kill the animal and enjoy at its pain and saying cheers to it…sorry this is something absolute ‘sadistic’ and should be condemned…let it be even “God”!

  17. The sooner us whities embrace the fact that we live in Africa with their tranditions, the better for us all. Further, what’s the difference between a once of sacrificial slaying of a bull and the continual hunting of game? (a whitey sport?)

  18. UCP-Universal Collective Prayer is often wondering about this too without wanting to rile Islamic sensibilities! I was happy when this year I got support from some Islamic quarters…as I call it I found my Islamic point of light!

    http://universalcollectiveprayer.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-12-02T17%3A51%3A00-04%3A00&max-results=7

    For all animal/nature lovers or just Christmas lovers on Wonkie you might also enjoy my Advent calendar gifts! We’ve already given the gift of trees, spoken about the gift that are elephants (btw that installation stemmed from hearing someone had eaten a relative of my purple elephant at a resort! OMG!)

    We’re recovering from the gift of friendship where it caused mice and elephants to converge on Meady’s Musings Production’s Little House! So we are doing repairs and putting in some reinforcements on the roof before we soon give the gift that are Bears! I have to be prepared for the likes of Goldilocks and the Three Bears and Winnie the Pooh rummaging through my kitchen looking for honey! Heavens forbid after he is stuffed with fluff and honey he doesn’t get stuck in a window or door! Oh dear! Or should I say Oh Bother!

    So Wonkie people welcome to join in if you like! 🙂

    PS: I have to admit though there are times I feel universal anger for things like this fly that has somehow entered my room right now and keeps buzzing on me and in my ear! …And just yesterday a friend was wondering where Noah kept woodpeckers on the Ark…I postulated it must have been on the higher decks and he would have had to keep an eye on them to minimise damage…and they along with other birds would have been the first to be freed from the Ark seeing as they could fly and all but also to stop the pecking!

    I then remarked Noah should have thought twice about keeping them sea gulls though! I’ve had an altercation or two with some in Halifax few yrs ago…and recently I learnt that Alfed Hitchcock’s The Birds is actually about them nasty sea gulls plotting to take over the world in San Francisco?! On my visits to that bay they have not attacked me though…but I have a beak to pick with those in Halifax! And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were indeed plotting! Hmm…along with the Penguins from Madagascar now that would just be too fishy!

    But my Purple Elephant has just trumpeted again so it’s time for me to go and see what he and the little mouse are up to! LOL! 😉

  19. If the bull was killed instantly it would be OK – we humanely kill animals to eat. The pain and suffering caused is a disgrace

  20. The problem is that some nations still despise African cultures. Africans never complain when some animals are put and eaten alive in boiling water.
    Killing is killing, whether by a gun or hands. Let us all be sensitive to other nations’ cultures otherwise the so called RainBow nations will blow up into smitherens.

  21. .. This is why they are Still So Backward !!!

    Savages and That belong in trees

  22. What happens though, if you prevent this traditional practise, and then, for example, those who practise circumcision without anaesthetic on newborn infants are challenged that what they do is cruel (which I happen to agree with)? Imagine the outcry is that practise was stopped.
    I would love to ban the ritual slaughter, torture of animals, and circumcision WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC) I believe in circumcision but not when the poor infant is subjected to surgery without anaesthetic.

  23. Not a Zulu myself, but these Activists could do better campaigning against Capital punishment in America and same sex marriages.Killing is killing regardless of the way you kill. How many of these activists have stopped slaughtering chickens by stepping on it’s wings and chopping off the head with a blunt knife, do they not catch fish using hooks and throw them back into the water under the guise of angling or sport whatever, the list is endless.

  24. Ade how you can say the African continent is more sane than anywhere else you must be blind, look at the state the continent is in because of their barbaric customs. this is carried through to what they do when they break into a house, rape and plunder. Look at the women and child abuse 90% barbaric people. Wake up Africa you are your own worst enemy.

  25. Geetha Arekal says:

    Guys please dont use that sympathetic wave to hide or disguise your cruelties. Anyone committing this heineous crime are worth being condemned. Here people are talking about the mannerisms in which the so called rituals are done. The uncivilization associated with it and not against any human being. People wake up and look around…do some introspection and grow up…change with the time and find yourself acceptable amongst other human race….your thoughts and adamant and not so humane is making you feel inferior to others and note me…no one is calling any name here but, you yourself…hightime…wake up for your own good. Just ‘coz the animals cannot speak..you just cant speak what ever you can in the name of “Africa”! I have known such good samaritans of Africa and are very sensible…

  26. an act of extreme cruelty, plain and simple

  27. I thought we were almost in 2010? Aren’t we supposed to evolve, to improve, to get rid of negative, barbaric cultural traditions? Are the Zulus, stuck in time? Do they really think all those people torturing the bull become MEN? It is PATHETIC, utter BULLSHIT!!!

  28. kill off the king-then there will be no-one to be ‘appeased’ by torturing another animal. He does sweet blow all for his ‘kingdom’ anyway

  29. Geetha Arekal says:

    Agree with you David…they have masked their emotions and heart with cruelty that they refuse to accept…I can only sympathise with their illitracy about the thoughts. God forgive & bless them and fill them with love so much so that they have no place for cruelty in their hearts…let this be for all human being. Amen!!!

  30. Didn’t god himself instruct Abraham to sacrifice his own son. Where are you all coming from with this “barbaric” thing. Why live in country of barbarians when you can’t adapt to their cultures. You call for hanging of criminals, isn’t that insane taking human lives. What did you say when apartheid government hanged people for what they believe in? Get real, you are disgusting

  31. I agree with you Musa no one will stop us doing our ritual practice it is part of our culture!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  32. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    Oh the poor animals….
    *munches on some MacDonalds*
    Luckily we’re all “vegetarian”….
    *Sucks the marrow out of a mutton bone*
    Yeah.. These Africans are barbaric…
    *Chews on the flesh of a dead animal*

    But yeah.. we don’t do anything close to this barbarism, RIGHT?

    Don’t make me laugh guys. This practice is horrific, and even more so when dressed up under the culture banner, but if you’re a meat eater, guess what that burger patty used to be alive once.

  33. If you were to examine the identity of the people complaining you will most probably find that it is the people from different race groups not Africans, we have been the victims of people who because of what we are we are looked at as inferior and stupid. Once a person adopts a mindset that the other is foolish and babaric, he/she will in no uncertain terms verbalise it as we can see the words we are called by as well as the act of killing the bull with bare hands.

    We can not be challenged and told by any race group or anybody for that matter that our culture is babaric, stupic etc and I for one supports and respect all nations culture.

    I still say if this was carried out a certain race group, they would have been regarded as heroes and a film / movie would be circulated around the world to demonstrate their bravery.

    Leave the african people (ZULU’S) to do their thing, if you do not like it thats you problem. One more thing stop bringing God into this because you don’t leave your lives in a Godly manner and you probably may not see heaven.

  34. Geetha Arekal says:

    David you are only confirming to the comments and thoughts expressed by varied people. We are still talking about the rituals..let it be anywhere around the world. Right now the rituals followed by Zulus has captured the attention and media has opened our eyes on the circumstances. Everyone does mistakes, correction is what the brain has been provided for. Dont use it for covering sin. You are only running away from the truth. By this you cannot defy or change the thoughts. We are not going to be benefited by Zulus changing but the Zulus themselves! I am surprised why one is bent upon fighting for the sake of it and not for the good of it. God is there in everyone and even in those animals being slaughtered. Mind you nobody becomes hero or heroine by killing but a VILLIAN!

  35. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    What has God got to do with this? Have you even read the bible? It’s filled with instances of animal sacrifice and murder. The Israelites practically wiped out everyone in their path, but I guess it’s OK because it was “under the guise of the Big Dude in the Sky”. The bull killing is no more barbaric, then our practice of keeping animals in pens, “humanely” shocking the life out of them, and then dismembering their carcasses for our consumption.

    If you feel so strongly about the Zulus and their cultural practices. Do the right thing, become a vegetarian.

  36. I’m not a Zulu but everyboby chooses how to live their life, live them with what they believe in as they dont interfer with what ever everybody does.
    This is boring straight a tissue is an issue now.

  37. Well, the news will travel around the world. Will 2010 be hit? I dare say that quite a few followers of soccer will be disgusted and possibly afraid to visit our country seeing that such barbaric practices are still prevalent in the 21st century.

  38. Tireofthiscrap makes me want to commit an atrocity on my fellow man…

  39. I agree 100% with the killing of the bull. I also believe that witches should be burned alive, and that the earth is flat.

  40. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Gill, I agree, the hypocrisy is just ridiculous. We practically live on fast food, meat from woolworths or Shoprite (hey not everyone is middle class), and yet we attempt to stigmatise a practice we are too cowardly to perform ourselves.

    Or maybe advances in science, have now allowed us to harvest meat of trees, without killing a few animals.

    By the way, how come there isn’t this much of an outcry over sport hunting, or other hunting practices? I smell racism, my friends, and that’s all it really boils down.

  41. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Gristy You’ve clearly never travelled around the world. Every country has it’s cultural idiosyncrasies. You honestly think people will not find this interesting? Why do you think people visit Africa? It’s definitely not to experience a recreation of sterile Europe, with its humane genetically modified meat trees (sarcasm) 😛

  42. Geetha Arekal says:

    Bad is bad and only good can replace it. Whether you would like to change or not…it would happen. The generation would surely realise the mistatkes their ancestors have done till now and evolve by reasoning it. For this no one has to read a bible. Becoming vegetarian is a welcoming advise. All said, done & written in are all by human beings and accordingn to their convenience. So think and live practical and meaningful life. Just becuase some one else does a mistake it cannot be an excuse for others to repeat. Lets all grow up and understand the changes required from time to time to be real human beings. Slavange Var!

  43. Jabulani Dlamini says:

    Which killing is better. The Zulus must continue with their culture, whoever is offended must go and live in a country where there in no such culture. If it is about asking for donations, please do it politely.

  44. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Pieto, Sigh… you also forget to add that God character, and the right to own slaves (which is in Leviticus, mind you).

    Listen there are cultural practices that I do consider abhorrent. Only to name a few, ritualised same-sex paedophilia in certain Melanesian cultures (because the boys have no choice), male and female circumcision (because the children have no choice), sport hunting (because it’s killing for pleasure) etc., however in this case, the meat of the bull will be made available to those in attendance. It’s not going to waste, therefore it falls well within what we can expect from our species as an omnivorous social primate, that’s practically on the top of the food chain.

  45. Jabulani… you know grown ups enter debates and respond in an adult manner. Children (some) adopt your “If you don’t like it – leave!” status, much like Charles Nqakula did in parliament when challenged by those protesting the crime levels in our beloved land.
    Time to grow up, my friend. We can only become the proud nation we need to be by entering debates in a mature fashion.
    Peace!

  46. Tiredofthiscrap speaketh truth!
    I demand we salute him by sacrificing our lunchboxes!

  47. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Gill Jubulani was being satirical, and playing on our constant threat (as white South Africans) to leave over <insert whatever crisis comes to mind, be it crime, perceived reverse racism, actual racism, the threat of tribal war, etc. etc.). His point is valid. What is childish, is to go for an ad hominem attack, which serves no point, and in actual fact negates debating.

    Calling people childish, retarded etc., on the internet, purely for not agreeing with you, is really one of the lowest forms of discourse.

  48. Tiredofthiscrap

    I hang my head in shame.
    I apologise to Jabulani.
    And I am eating humble*choke* pie…

    (scared it’s made out of sacrificial bull innards)

  49. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @gill

    😉

    I just hope it’s made out of free-range bull innards, because I fear we haven’t heard the last of mad cow disease.

  50. TIERD OF THIS CRAP FELLOW. Have thee verbal diarrhoea? I have visited and worked in more countries than you have probably had hot diners! Look my friend, the world has moved on hopefully, and ancient customs showing off how “Manly” one is draped in a loin cloth are no longer clever, acceptable or in vogue!

  51. DAVID SHUT UP
    U REMOVED ALL DOUBT WHAT U ARE BECAUSE U ARE STUPID and I quote you
    “because of what we are we are looked at as inferior and stupid”
    ( like the millions who practise so called cultural cruel K*K.
    I am from different race group (I am classified as Coloured) and I am an African

  52. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Gristy

    You have no idea how tempting it was to reply “A trip to Cape Town from Jozzie is not the same as a trip to another country, nor will a stay in a hotel as a businessman enlighten you to local cultures”.

    I never said it was “manly” to dress in a loin cloth or to wear leopard skins around your shoulders, but it certainly is interesting to see that, or to experience other cultures in this fashion. I particularly enjoyed my latest excursion in the Amazon, but I digress.

    The greatest irony however is, that these “inferior” or “non-modern”cultures can actually teach us how to live sustainably and within our means. The real joke however is on us (especially in our misguided and arrogant belief of cultural superiority).

    *Munches on a MacDonalds burger*

  53. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Gerry Exactly, this has very little to do with “the poor bulls” but everything to do with racist preconceptions and views of cultural superiority. As I said earlier, if they (the anti crowd) really felt so strongly that this cultural practice was abhorrent, then why haven’t anyone started a “go-vegetarian” campaign.

    One of the biggest myths about our food industry is the humane killing of livestock. If you don’t believe me, visit an abattoir, and see the “humane” act yourself. There’s nothing humane about cutting an animal’s throat or stunning them with an electric rod to the brain.

  54. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Walker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYSwesoQHAo (What happens in abattoirs, not for sensitive viewers)

    I hope you include all of us in your racist diatribe about “savages” and “…belong in trees”. You do realise we’re all descendent from tree-dwelling simians, or are you one of those “But Ma we came from red mud, cos it says so in the Bible” nuts?

    Pathetic!

  55. Geetha Arekal says:

    Guys why are we getting so personal and deviating from the subject ” barbaric rituals”? V are not here to witness each ones capacity of showing a person down and also not against any race. We respect human beings plus the lives. Lets stick to it. Crap is tiering!!!

  56. Disgusting act of barbaric behavior as with bull fighting I would like to see perpetrators gored!

  57. Theres a lot of talk here about how ritual slaughtering of animals is an african thing and if it was done by whities there wouldnt be half the noise made about it…
    Every year in DENMARK (of all places), dolphins are slaughtered by teens as part of their iniatiation rites:
    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/stop-the-calderon-dolphin-slaughter-in-denmark
    The petition is currently signed by 12 295 people from all over the world.
    The petition for the Ukweshwama has only gathered 5 645 signatures…

  58. Please leave the poor Zulus alone now. As their kids become educated they will catch up with civilisation, for what it is worth (only skin deep). Our white ancestors also condoned barbaric practices in the not too far distant past so stop all this vitriol. Rather crusade against zenophobia and setting people alight. THAT is barbaric!!

  59. Ashley and Denise Eaton says:

    Do you really expect anything else from these simian retards

  60. I’m a Nxumalo, a direct descendant of the folk who were in charge of Zululand before Shaka took over.

    People define their own traditions and the SAME people REdefine their own traditions. This is one tradition that ought to have died with the person who introduced it.

  61. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    @Tanni I definitely agree, my ancestors used to paint themselves blue and fight the Romans naked. We used to torture people during the middle ages for not being Christian, or if they believed in the “wrong version” of Christianity, and in later years we developed weird views about our superiority and the inferiority of others. We even had slaves, and did terrible things to people on the African continent.

    Cultures change, it’s inevitable, but the worst thing to do would be to act all arrogant and act surprise that meat used to be alive once…

    @Styvies – Thanks very nice find. I really hope it’ll stop the racists amongst us, but alas, they’re like a bad rash…

  62. WHAT WRONG WITH THIS ORGANISATION,EVERYTIME THEY LIKE TO MAKE NOISE ABOUT SOMETHING THEY LIKE ATTENTION.IAM SICK AND TIRED.LEAVE ZULU CULTURE ALONE SIS MAN.

  63. KILLING ANIMALS (LET ALONE THE RITUAL ) IS KILLING ANIMALS E.G THE MEAT THAT WE EAT IS FROM THE ANIMALS THAT WERE KILLED ILREGARDLESS OF HOW BUT FACT IS THEY HAVE KILLED THE ANIMAL SO PLEASE KILLING IS KILLING WHETHER RITUAL OR NOT THEN SA MUST STOP SELLING MEAT IF THATS THE CASE .

  64. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    Guys, please easy on the caps.

  65. Fani Sihlangu says:

    I am an african and I respect all cultures of our society but strangling a bull with hands is so barbaric and ancient. Animals are emotional as well as humans. We should treat them with propriety and compassiion.
    Fani Sihlangu
    Tembisa

  66. as far as i know man is above animals and animals have got no rights is they had i dont think we would be killing and eating them,as we speak millions are cooking meat for supper.so what ever man does to an animal as long as he will not put it to waste but we eat is his own bussiness.if God did not want us to kill animals he would have never have told his people to sacrifice it(burning it on the alter) so who ever came with animal right should get a life this is africa.

  67. yabatho25
    so you believe too that cannibalism is appropriate?
    “God would have not made Man out of meat if he was not meant to be eaten”
    (heard that somewhere once)

    *gulp*

  68. I guess the bottom line is:
    “The male of the species (NOTE:NOT FEMALE) needs to show off his machoism and flex his biceps in order to impress”

    Nuff said

  69. Brutal savages!May each and every man who took part in this cruel savage act be cursed to death! It just show what these savages think about God..they must be thinking He is as savage as they are! [Text removed due to excessively inappropriate, hateful or racist content]

    To be cruel to any othet living creature is not Godly and God does NOT except such cruel sacrifices anyway for it is written:

    Ecc. 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    [Text removed due to excessively inappropriate, hateful or racist content]

  70. Dirk Muller

    You must be a really smiley happy person

    🙂

  71. Up with it my brothers! We can play with our meat in any way we want, its African.

  72. That traditions need to keep in touch with the times has been proved by history. Cultured people no longer burn witches: the stocks no longer exist; public hanging does not occur in our society anymore; tarring and feathering is long gone; adulterers are not stoned (Tiger, you lucky bugger!); in the majority of countries capital punishment is no longer law. That is one of the reasons taxi drivers worry me so much. Soon, what they do on our roads will become tradition and where are we going to be then?

  73. Joe Hannsen says:

    Hopefully the ZULUS will eventually realise that this is no longer a civilised way of doing things.

  74. @Pietsnor

    BRAVO champ!
    I like your thinking.

    :o)

  75. black night says:

    would we had made all these comments if no publicity was given to this issue.
    I doubt it. As much as i am an animal lover as well as a meat eater this bull killing ritual has no effect on my life and my families. I beleive that as human
    beings we always find the wrongs in what other people or cultures do but can never see the wrongs that we do in our daily lives. Be honest, how many
    of us go through the day being absolutely truthful in whatever we do, say and think. If these guys are doing what they feel is right – so be it. Life goes
    on and we should be greatful that we have that.

  76. Gill,

    I used to be a happy smiley person up and until the arrival of this new south africa where barbarism is part of everyday living and some people even have the guts to protect such savagery!

    I don’t have a problem if some guy believe he wants to sacrifice some animal to God ( how a thinking person who believe everything was created by God and therefore belongs to God antway arive at the point to sacrifice that wich is His property anyway is above my understanding) but the way it is done, says a lot about the tribe involved.

  77. black night

    Life is not just about what happens to my family or to me, thinking people will stand up for animals that can’t speak for themself.

    Clearly the president, being a zulu, gave orders not to give this any further publicity as we never heard what the court had to say about this…the fact that the ungodly judge gave permission to this crualty was never really broadcasted

  78. Gill,

    Whosoever use the “tradisional” medicine of a sangoma, is also practising cannibalism as most these medcines contain some kind of human organ. Human organ smuggling from hospitals is daily pratice in this cursed new south africa – how de klerk arived at calling a place that went back into the past about 400 years “new” is something I will never understand; but then again, what can you expect of a freemason?

  79. Fani Sihlangu,

    When will you go for president? You may have my vote!

  80. mr animal rights where were u on 3 000 000 bcyears ago while this zulus practice this culture?

  81. @Dirk Muller

    Hey buddy – we have all experienced the ugly face of our new S Africa, but let’s never forget how for decades our black brothers and sisters faced an even uglier face. We may have traditional slaughtering (and torturing) of animals which I loathe and which makes me sick, and we may have horrific crime (I am a victim of a brutal house robbery where I was held up for over 2 hours by 3 men with a gun and a box cutter) However – I acknowledge the pain and suffering the rest of S Africa went through whilst I was oblivious to apartheid and a white-domination country. I grew up out of S Africa.
    Let’s pray that we can retain some good and get rid of a lot of bad. We need to give our country a chance. By the way – sangomas don’t cook human beings. Wicked witch doctors may – but sangomas are traditionally herbalists and not criminals.
    Regards
    gill

  82. [Some content removed due to lack of relevance] I seemed to have somewhat messed up the last link about the Islamic point of Light (the link points to the page but not the exact post) Here it is again:

    http://universalcollectiveprayer.blogspot.com/2009/11/eid-ul-adha-and-thanksgivingi-found.html

    I don’t think animals should be eaten but I also try not to push my way or viewpoint onto others. [Some content removed due to lack of relevance] But this man had a very interesting point about his hunting…he says he even teaches his children it…that they need to understand that they are taking a life when they eat meat…so they understand the sacrifice…I told him he was romanticizing hunting and the meat industry since it is hardly a battle for survival one man against a bird etc…one bird shot to feed a few people etc. In the end he is just hunting for sport and still eating perhaps KFC with chickens treated and killed in very cruel manners! So…but he kept saying he had compassion for the animals…

    I realize he really didn’t understand the concept of compassion in much the same way as I…this is what finally came out through my prodding…he saw it as killing the animal say in the least painful way as compassionate…like in Islamic halal he felt (in his opinion) I guess?

    And really Wonkie is right to say eating animals today is a lot like the slavery of yesterday…I think this was even put fought as a POV in the Hollywoodized story of slavery abolition in the Amazing Grace film out a couple years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing_Grace_(2006_film)

    But yep it is a cultural evolution that the world is going through…and hopefully we will get to the point that all species will be free…of course then there will be the genuine carnivores…but I feel they have their place in the whole balance of things…and perhaps the next evolution or paradigm shift would then be for they to evolve into herbivores…perhaps eventually tigers will become cute and cuddly for real! I think it will be like that scene in Madagascar 2…where the lion realizes his true nature is to eat his friend the buffalo? And he has to find away to move past that…

    However for that evolution to take place, first humans that are omnivores would have to become herbivores and that sense of peace with the animals that are herbivores might be what would spur the next evolution for carnivores to evolve too?

    So yep the paradigm shift that will first have to occur is that all people would have to become vegetarian…or perhaps even vegan dunno…and yep I feel that for many people the change won’t be easy as ‘addiction and psychological condition to meat eating’ is so embedded in the human population already. I try not to judge it since I was born into vegetarianism so I can’t understand how it must be…but it is why to test myself I’ve experimented with veganism and even semi-raw diets…and really I feel it is the same weaning that takes place if one would have to become vegetarian from meat eating…and really anyone can do it and live healthily after…just based from my own eating experiences.

    [Some content removed due to lack of relevance]

  83. Joe Hannsen

    Your version of civilised is based on your own tradition and value system. A Zulu has a different idea. Why impose ‘white’ civilisation on Africa? After all – are white people not visitors who came uninvited to live in a Black Man’s land? We need to remember that our version of what is right is not necessarily right for others.
    (This does not stop me from feeling a sense of revulsion at the idea of torturing an animal to death, by the way)

  84. The Spannish are allowed to enjoy their Bull Run. Leave the Zulus alone!!

  85. This ritual is not “culture”it is the way of life of barbarians still on the
    bottom rung of the ladder of evolution.After many more incarnations
    they may arrive at a time when they will also find it repulsive.We can not
    change them-only time can.

  86. I don ‘t believe in religion and I surely don’t believe in tradition.

  87. As the saying goes, “The man can come out of the bush but the bush more often than not stays in the man”

  88. black night says:

    Dirk, i understand what you say and agree with you fully. What we really must understand in this situation is no matter how much noise we make about this issue its not going to change. In this country and perhaps throughout the world as long as you are in the minority voicing your opinion against such acts or any other issue pertaining to cruelty to animals – you are just wasteing your time . If as in this case the powers that be are the one’s who are for this ritual – how is this going to change anything. And do
    you really think those that performed the sacrifice are going to bother reading
    all these comments plus all those that have appeared in the print media to really care about what people feel. I doubt it. Thats why it does not bother me what happens because at the end of the day if i’ve done wrong I will have to be the one to answer for it and one thing i don’t want to mess with is
    karma and we know what that means.

  89. I have only one question; “Can I have the Fillet please?” – most of my Zulu friends only eat the fattier cuts so if the fillet is up for grabs I’ll happily take it…
    What a mountain out of a mole hill. Where was all the outrage during the dark days of apartheid – I was continually harassed in those days at school etc over my stance of supporting the ANC (which I no longer do due to their shocking record of late) and the ECC, anti-apartheid movement etc. SA whites are generally a pathetic whinging bunch. stop whinning get active and DO something… take the BULL by the HORNS man!

  90. Darwin could proof his evolution theory if he could find the missing link. Maybe he didnt realise that the missing link is still alive and active and that they do horrible things and call it tradition

  91. Traditions that hurt others (outside the culture in which they are practised) should have no place in this world.
    If animals are killed, it should be done humanely and within generally accepted norms of the society in which the cultural group finds itself.

    Seeing that this is a democracy, maybe we should all vote on the matter and have the Zulus abide by the majority vote?

  92. anilkaralamangala says:

    There was a similar ritual though not as barbaric as this one sounds in a place called Sirsi in Karnataka, India. The only difference was that the bull was just beheaded. Subsequently upon counselling by noble souls on animal sacrifices, the people gave up. Today, a syringe is shot into the bull and about 20 ml of blood is drawn and is used to bathe the Goddess. Zulus have to take a cue from these tribals of North Karnataka.

  93. anilkaralamangala
    I wish that would happen to all barbaric rituals. Adapt.. adapt… adapt..
    Or we remain uneducated and brazen and arrogant.
    Animals cannot speak.
    They trust us.
    How dare we abuse that kind of love?

  94. Geetha Arekal says:

    Like I said, put yourself in the shoes of those innocent animals..paying through their life to entertain you on those hula hoo dance like a devil around the dead.. Can you ever imagine how nasty one would be doing such rubbish…let it be any one in any part of globe…unacceptable and worth being condemned. Life is to see feel happy and let others be happy. No one has any right living selfishly at some other life’s cost. Guys say anything, this eternal truth will not change by your denying. Realise or you would be made to realise…this voice will not stop until you change for good! Take care

  95. Its sad to listen to such pathetic liars who despise other cultures’ ways of operating. Nobody complains when Barak Obama (a nobel peace prize winner sends 30 000 more young people to die in a country which is not theirs of the sake of oil.

    Before these empty vessels start playing God and passing judgement on issues they know nothing about they should ask which predator has weapon that it uses to kill with. Now that they see people killing a bull in the same manner that we used to before the racist oppressors got here they cry foul.

  96. Brothers and sisters, those who cry out against our rituals (I am not Zulu) have to be ignored. We cannot debase ourselves by replying to them anymore. They are what they are, dimwits with vacuums between their ears. They stand in judgement of issues they know nothing. Dond worry about them. That is why they are so damaged socially, emotionally and spiritually

  97. Geetha Arekal says:

    @ Supporters: Whos suffering??? Who is losing in the process…you havent paid heed all these years…so what if not for some more years….but may not be you surely your younger ones with more exposure to the world would surely do…take care

  98. gill
    December 10th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    What you taliking about is just an englishspeaker lie. It was NEVER the intention of the apartheid governments to treat blacks badly. They just could not be in a position of trust because they were not trusted…[Content moderated for inappropriate, racist or hateful language] The ones like the mandela terrorist who ended up in jail were no angels anyway; they all were terrorists who killed inocent people for their pleasure; same as they did with this bull…again it is an englishspeaker-freemason lie to present mandela the terrorist and then as some kind of saint [Content moderated for inappropriate, racist or hateful language]

  99. fez

    You must be a total idiot to claim that we know nothing about this brutal savage barbarric thing called tradition…how difficult is it to figure out that the bull is being tortured? [Content moderated for inappropriate, racist or hateful language], it’s not against the tradition we have it, it’s about torturing the bull!

    Come to me then i will treat you the way the bull was treated using my hands and feet…maybe then you will find out what it is we don’t like.

    [Content moderated for inappropriate, racist or hateful language]

  100. Dirk – take a deep breath.
    Breathe deeply.
    In….out….in…out……
    There you go.
    Feeling better?
    Good!

    Have a good weekend, and please don’t forget to take your medication.
    *smiles*
    Lots of love

    gillkitty

  101. Great to see the heated debate and so many diverse viewpoints – a few points to bear in mind when you’re commenting please:

    1. Please don’t attack the person, present your view on the issue at hand (i.e. NO name-calling, racist, sweeping generalisations or hateful speech). Any valid complaints and we’ll remove some or all of your comments if we don’t have time to moderate.

    2. Please stick to the topic – wandering off on a tangent not related to the subject of the post will get your comment deleted if we don’t have time to moderate it.

    Thanks and do keep the comments rolling!
    The Wonkie Team

  102. black night says:

    Hey have any of you guys got a tip for the lotto 2morrow

  103. Well! That was very interesting! 1. To PM, the WONKIE team: Why delete things from Dirk’s posts but let things from a host of other racists go? You’re definetly biased yourself. 2. Anything as barbarous as killing a defenceless animal by a horde of drunk Zulu thugs, or the burning alive of a (human) “witch” by a panel of crazy German religious fanatics can be rationalised on the grounds of “culture”. Your “culture” defines you, yourself. So if your culture is barbaric, so are you, and calling other people names and telling them to leave you alone, especially on the grounds that you are “African” with your own traditions, changes nothing. Barbaric is barbaric, and calling upon the sins of Abraham to condone barbarism is an excuse and not a plausible reason. We’re living in the 21st century and not 4000 years ago. 3. The call to “leave us alone, we’re black with black traditions” is the poorest, meanest, most meaningless excuse. You’re human, aren’t you? So why act like animals? Sure, carnivores kill each night to eat, but is that what we should compare ourselves to? 4. And finally, if it wasn’t for the animal rights groups, abbattoirs which provide us with the steaks and chops we love, would still be killing animals the way the poor bull was killed by a conscienceless Zulu horde.

  104. @Leonecole – very fair point about why deleting some things and not others. Firstly, we try to let the forum be as open as possible and also we don’t constantly monitor the new comments for moderation. If somebody complains about a specific comment or commentator we’ll look at it on a case by case basis and decide.

    We do need some ground rules to operate under otherwise there is no control over the quality of the comments or interactions. Where Wonkie chooses to draw the line (and I agree it is a totally subjective, discretionary line) is to allow commentators to focus on the issue at hand and not attack the person offering a different point of view. Additionally, sweeping derogatory generalisations are not acceptable as they rarely add value to the readers. (So comments like “blacks are primitive idiots that don’t have a capacity to think” will be removed when we spot it, but “all whites don’t understand our culture and should leave us alone” is likely to pass even though it is also a foolish generalisation) Dude.. everyone is biased but we’re doing our best to keep the debate clean and with as many viewpoints as possible – if anything you’ve read in any other comments offends you to your core by all means drop us a line and we’ll have a look! 🙂

  105. Leonecole,

    An easy way out of the truth is to call it racist. Some of my words that were removed, were removed because it contained truth’s that cannot be reasoned away…so the easy way out is to remove it on racist grounds but I will say again what I said; just another way…these guy’s in our government today steal everything they possibly can plus some more..that is prove of the fact that the guys who intoduced a system that kept these untrustworthy thugs from a position of trust, at least had a winning receipe against corruption and barbarric treatment of other living beings like annimals.

  106. Ben

    You have a good point…only time wil bring about that change and Ian Smith the former Rhodesian leader ( that was the last leader Rhodesia had ) said it won’t happen within a thousand (1000) years…and time will prove his words to be prophetic! 🙂

  107. Jan,

    What makes you think that this continent belongs to blacks? Surely not this southern point as us whites arrived here the same time the blacks did and beacuse the white man had the superior brain, was able to subject the stone age blacks who were free to return to central africa where they came from.

    If this southern point of africa truly is the “cradle of human kind” it means all humans originated from here and if that is true, this southern point of africa belongs to all human races…fact is, the animals were here first and should net be tortured to death…and may God give that every single savage who took part in such brutal misstreatment of animals, come to his end the same way!

  108. Ashley and Denise Eaton says:

    maybe Winnie Mandela with her tyres, a little petrol and a rattling box of matches had the right idea and a wonderful tradition for the Zulus to practice amongst themselves

  109. Ashley and Denise Eaton,

    Sounds like you two englishspeakers had some form of “racial awakening”.. 😀

  110. Denise and Ashley Eaton says:

    Author : A.A.Eaton Comment : Dirk Muller………….We are both in our 60s but I can tell you I was awake to this crowd and their kind +/- 45 years ago………….just an extra comment……..I am a Freemason

  111. Let’s move on now.. Dirk and the Eatons are talking a whole lot of Taurus!

  112. TiredofthisCrap says:

    After browsing through Dirk and Eaton’s comments, my two cents:

    It’s a good thing that they’re well in their 60s, because that means, they’ll hopefully die off soon. Sadly, there’s a whole generation of white South Africans (members of my family included) who are far too stuck in their ways. The only way for us to move on, is for them to shuffle their mortal coils, and return to the Earth.

    There is no point in arguing with them people, they’re thick as stones.

  113. TiredofthisCrap says:

    I fully support Wonkie for deleting Dirk’s comments, since his comments served no purpose but to stroke his frail ego, and to troll this site, with racist nonsense (for your information Dirk, what you’re accusing one particular ethnic group of is universal amongst us all, if you call them savages, please have the integrity to realise that you’re no different).

    I find it interesting that bigots and racists are the first to cry foul about their right to freedom of expression. Wonkie.com is not government nor does it have to cater to your kind. So in the immortal words of one of my friends, “Voetsek”.

  114. Denise and Ashley Eaton says:

    Author : Ashley Eaton Comment : Tiredofallthiscrap ………….As you are the type of person that wishes me gone from this life you obviously a real upright type………….no wonder you feel feathers for speechless animals.

  115. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    Which is ironic since you seem to feel nothing for your fellow man.

  116. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    I’m sorry but you can’t argue that you have the moral high ground when you practically dismiss another ethnic group as something less than human. As I’ve said before, if you feel so strongly about the Zulus and their cultural practices, then go vegetarian or even vegan. In fact, start a campaign for like-minded individuals, otherwise, what you’re posting here “oh the poor animals” is just a load of hypocritical hot air.

  117. Frank Henry says:

    As I recall, it was also a “tradition” of King Shaka to execute his enemies by impaling them on a sharpened stick. Perhaps this tradition should be re-instated for the ignorant masses who insist on supporting such a vial practice.

  118. @Frank Henry – a ‘vial’ is a little glass tube, used to store liquids.
    Did you mean ‘vile’?
    Vile describes animal cruelty aptly, and if I could, I’d send a ‘vial’ of sleeping medicine to the next animal who has to satisfy Man’s lust to show off his prowess

  119. yabatho25, on October 20th, 2009 at 11:24 am you wrote as follows:

    who the heck,blocked my way!!!!!!!!!!!!,i declare the day of liberation for all beasts will come and we will be free to roam as we please.(hope the big guys guys prepare me a peace prize for a good speech.)hhhhhhhhheeeeeyaaaaaa.

    You speak like this ANC government with a fork tongue! One place you want freedo for all beasts but here you think it’s ok for beasts to be brutally killed by zulu’s ???!!!???

    Here you claim that beasts are subject to humans and have no rights..???!!!???

  120. TiredofthisCrap

    My dog will bite the persomn who says “voetsek” as my dog knows the correct word is “Voertsek TiredofthisCrap”

  121. TiredofthisCrap says:

    @gill One can only pray to the gods of the English language, that at the very least, he’ll now know the difference.

    @Dirk I actually prefer voetsek over voertsek, since the former rolls easier off the tongue, and is less guttural. It’s really the same argument over whether ‘n is pronounced “uh” or “hin”, quite frankly, as an Anglophile it really doesn’t matter to me. I’m sure native Afrikaans speakers with delusions of Dutch-hood would cringe, but then I prefer French over Afrikaans any day.

  122. TiredofthisCrap
    Jer ne said pas la lingue de les Afrikaans hommes et filles. Je suis Zimbabwean (ex) who went to girls-only-British-Imperialist-school and we learned French.
    I don’t like this ‘voetsek’ word. It smacks of the man with the green underpants with holes in.. the one who fell off his horse.
    Quelle dommage….

  123. I am a pure Zulu man from KZN but I think Ekweshama custom needs to be relooked at, this custom is not in keeping with the time we are living in.This custom belongs to the first century.

  124. Siyabonga
    Pure Zulu as opposed to what?
    And good for you. Let’s modernise traditional ideas. Jews used to sacrifice animals at the Temple in Israel, but today it is no longer done because times have changed, so prayers are offered, but no animal is slaughtered.

  125. @Ben
    What do you know about tradition.
    if you are saying this is not tradition then explain to me what u know about tradition.

  126. Evemtually, I think we have come to the close of this mud-slinging match, and I sincerely belief if we here in South Africa have any respect for one another, this would come to an end. Unless you have something against the tradition of Zulu culture, I have not read that the Zulus went out of their way to diminish any other culture, perhaps not the white man’s culture. If you think you are such a superior race, than prove it by your actions, words and deeds. We have to accept the fact that we live in South Africa and that we just came out of a terrible regime, that not only destroyed family lifes, uprooted people and dumbed them out of sight, and are we not perpetuating the very dreaded ideology by dehumanizing another people by these abhorent remarks. Grow up and instead of harassing, belittling and and bless yourself and say they do not exist in small corner. it is time that we have to reconsider our attitudes towards one another unless you stir a racial hatred amongst the people.

    You must not forget thet the Khoi-San people had been almost obliterated by the previous government who had laws in place to kill off all the bushmen as vermon. Their language has been expunged, they were forbidden to speak their own language, practice their culture and traditions. These supposed to be superior race must not forget that we are trying our utmost best not ro bare any grudges to what has happened in the past, we look forward although they still suffer the same way as the Indians in Canada, and the Aborigins in Australia.

    Let us close this chapter for good and let us have another CODESA. Thank you chaps for being attentive of my writing and I am sure we wll be able to take hands and make South Africa a better place to live.

  127. This is an udisputable fact: Everything that man invent after being evicted from Garden of Eden is debatable and questionable because we are no longer living according to God’s original purpose; we rebeled against God’s authourity to guide us. Had Adam not sinned, there could never have been a need for animal sacrifies; even Jesus could not have come to die for us! Adam did not eat meat at all, there was peace between animals and men even amongst animals themselves – meat only came to be eaten immediately after the deluge because of lack of vegetation then. But God’s purpose hasn’t changed, eventually that peacful paradise conditions will be restored – Isaiah 65:17,25 assures us “For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. 25 “The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull; and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” Jehovah has said.’ Read also Isaiah 11:6-9.

    So great future lies ahead of us when God’s tradition will prevail and all man-made traditions will be abolished for good!!!!!!!

  128. Peter Pan
    I think of this comments page not as a mud slinging exercise but as a brilliant tapestry showing the diversity of the people who make up our country. I congratulate WONKIE for opening this debate, and encourage people to openly and freely speak about their feelings. We all make fun of Juliusss M, but what is actually happening is he is saying the things the ANC do not dare say out loud. In the same way – Wonkie is showcasing often unspoken thoughts, and they are to be encouraged to carry on.
    My humble tuppence worth
    ;-P

  129. TiredofthisCrap

    Talking about lingo’s…Afrikaans is the only language that contain so manny words from other languages…maybe you anglophile will cringe about this fact, but Afrikaans have the best qualities to be a world language and it’s a fact, that it is the most modern language on the planet as well.
    If you had the abitlity to be aware of the obvios things around, you would have noticed that I am from a German off-spring..not dutch and it’s no ilusion

  130. Dirk Muller, if you truly believe that Afrikaans contains more words from other languages than any other language then you are sadly miss-informed! The English langauage has “stolen” by a long chalk, more words from other languages. Just go through the Oxford English dictionary if you doubt me! Esparanto is the worlds modern language!
    Hey! are you are not aware that Afrikaans is a dying language? Other than here in SA, where else pray, is it spoken?

  131. Gristy

    in the first place, english is the most wide spoken lingo on the planet..that makes it the lingo of the fools as the majority are fools.
    The fact that it’s a minority using Afrikaans proves my point as the minorities are the ones who are right.
    The fact that Afrikaners are one of the most hated people on this planet ( specially are they hated by the nose-in-the-air-english speakers) also proves that they are the smartest and deliver the best brains.
    Esperanto is nobody’s official lingo and like latin, does not really exist nor have the qualities of Afrikaans….there is no lingo better understood by animals ( specially dogs) than Afrikaans.

  132. Denise and Ashley Eaton

    Being a free mason does not impress me at all as the free mason’s were at the front of getting this chaos going…the ultimate bunch of fools on this planet are called free mason…tragically those inside this satanic organisation have almost no knowledge of it – so one can not even imagine what a bunch of fools the free masons are

  133. I am totally unimpressed with people who label others as ‘fools’.
    Mind you – in Shakespearean times, ‘fools’ were court jesters and much loved.
    Hmmm… makes me think this over again…

  134. TiredofthisCrap says:

    So very true Gill. Apart from in South Africa, and those individuals scattered around the world (lol in Anglophile Australia), the prospect for kitchen Dutch is fairly limited. I do feel sorry for the language though, since it’s origins is truly South African. The language of the slaves that became the langue du jour of South Africa’s most colourful people (the Cape Coloureds) and their cultural and blood relatives the Afrikaners.

    By the way, Dirk if you honestly think, Afrikaans will survive in Canada and Australia, let’s merely think of the plight of the French Huguenots who came to our southern shores. After only two generations their language was gone and they were assimilated into the Boer fold.

    As for English, it’s one of the most universal of spoken languages, even my Chinese friends speak it, so to do my zulu friends. It’s truly the lingua franca of our time.

  135. @TiredofthisCrap
    Afrikaans like Yiddish will probably fade away. It’s a pity. As a lover of languages I hate to be a witness to the death of any tongue.

  136. TiredofthisCrap

    I can’t remember mentioning Canada or Australia…you must be just another english idiot!

    All informed people know that the majority ( of whom you are clearly part ) are the idiots on this planet and the fact that the majority can speak english says a lot about the english!

    Then again, the fact that only a minority are able to speak english also says a lot ( and I wonder if you even can! ) The fact that you english have a queen is prove of the fact that you find yourself in a third world dark age even today!

    Hopefully soon you will get tired of your own crap..your nose must be blocked for not smelling the shit around your mouth!

  137. gill

    Who cares what you unimpressed with? Maybe only you yourself. You have more than just the one thing to think over….one of it is the fact that Afrikaans will not fade away and the other is the fact that if God call somebody a fool, I who know God, not only may do so also, but He expect of me to do so also.

  138. @Dirk Muller
    Firstly.. happy 2010. May your pickled lemon persona be lightly dusted with sugar, so that you can crack a smile and enjoy at least a few days of this lovely new year in this lovely country.
    Secondly – when you next chat with God, do send him my deep thanks for the recipe for koeksusters. I am most appreciative and I hope He likes the matzo balls recipe I sent to Him.
    Love and hugs
    gillkitty

    ~^..^~

  139. gill can’t you send your own thanks, you sent your matzo ball recipe ?(receipt)
    I don’t think you are very lekker instead of sending recipe? ask for help

  140. Hi Madevu
    Umm….. I didn’t understand your question..
    But have a lovely day anyhow.
    gill

  141. Tiredofthiscrap says:

    Dirk old bean, don’t you find it the least bit hypocritical to insist that English is the language of the fools yet you’re using it yourself? I also appreciate your prevalent use of childish ad hominem attacks, primarily because they show that you’re a classy fellow of extraordinary wit and intelligence.

    Oh my! I was just sarcastic and used an ad hominem fallacy, myself. Perhaps, my old bean, you’re right about English speakers. *snigger*

  142. Well, I am tired of, tiredofallthiscrap and Dirk is a Jerk!
    Can we please have some sensible and no more antipathetic postings on this site. We get nowhere and form no conclisions from all the crap that has been posted!

  143. Gristy

    I’d rather be a “jerk” than a “nothing”

  144. TiredofthisCrap says:

    @Gristy I agree Dirk is a racist troll, but however retarded his opinion might be, our country and our constitution protects his freedom of speech, his opinions and who he ultimately decides to associate with (provided of course, that he’s not trying incite or do something criminally).

    As for the matter at hand, we did reach a consensus that our opinions are very diverse on this issue:

    (a) Some have maintained that this ritual is sadistic and has no place in our modern world. They have argued that it’s time the Zulus “modernise”.

    (b) However, my stance on this issue is that if you’re a meat eater (arguably that includes most South Africans) and you complain about this ritual, you’re more or less a hypocrite, because through our diet, we’ve been condoning the killing of animals for meat for centuries (regardless of perceived, false or actual humaneness). The mere fact that it’s out of mind and sight for the vast majority of us, makes it even more sick.

    (c) Others see the ritual as a necessary part of a centuries old culture, a means to reconnect with their past.

    Ultimately, it really doesn’t matter who is right or wrong in this issue.

  145. TiredofthisCrap says:

    @Dirkie

    Ad hominem attacks are really some of the lowest forms of discourse. I know you have a head on your shoulders, therefore I implore you to act like a gentleman. I am aware that the internet provides us with some anonymity, but your malicious reply to Gristy served no purpose.

  146. How do we start a new topic please, Wonkie?
    This one has run its course.
    XX

  147. TiredofthisCrap,

    Like you coward english speakers do, you give me some speach about saying I’d rather be a jerk than a nothing, but you don’t have the guts to give grisly the same speach simply because you know chances that I will neckless you is zero, but you not so sure about what grisley may do….

    This act reveal you as being racist yourself, but a typical english coward one! 😉

  148. Dirk-the-Duck – have you ever tried spellcheck?

  149. gill

    Why do a spell check? I am not in a classroom and secondly I don’t care a fidler’s fart about english anyway and thrirdly, I am not a typist and most the time if I hit the wrong button on my keybord don’t even bother to correct it as I am not trying to impress anybody with my skills, but rather just want to get what I wanted to say behind me and over and done with – wonkie is not the only forum where I pop in from time to time during my spare time.. be glad you don’t pure mxit lingo from me 😉

  150. gill

    O..I wanted to mention that wonkie is about cartoons..therefore the cartoon avatar … maybe you should consider having a bottle of the gill anti-dandruff as an avatar 😉

  151. *laughing with Dirk-theDuck*
    Dirk – it’s ‘gill’ with a soft ‘g’ – like ‘Jill” only I am different.
    What can I say? My parents like the name.
    I like Gill shampoo though. We must all use it, because dandruff is naaaaasty.
    😛

  152. I love “fiddler’s fart” … what a thought!
    hahaha!

  153. gill

    You just made my day saying something nice to me ! 😡
    Very few people ever have something nice for me! Love you for that! 😉

  154. *hugs Dirk-the-Duck*

  155. it is an african culture, nobody must complain about somebody s culture whereas we free.

  156. phineas

    So, it is an african way of thinking that freedom means that you may misstreat other living beings?

  157. Dirk, dirk, dirk, dirk……. I laughed so much I cried….. but then the tears grew real and I felt interminably sad…. can you not see the irony of your latest post? how increadibly short sighted and concieted for a bone head to preach about freedom and misstreating other “beings”.
    keep posting mate – you really are a laff an minute!

  158. Peter Pan – don’t be selective when using historical reference – agreed the previous regiem was a horrific injustice against all – but don’t selectively post about them trying to wipe out the Khoisan when the first Bantu tribes in this Southern Africa region had a very similar policy towards them – the selective rewrites of history are not helping in healing rifts either – to paint one group as a victim and the other as opressor///etc is always a very dangerous road to take…. take great care when making your point – other than that I completely agree with your sentiments – sweet.

  159. Phred,

    Should rather REALLY cry (and not lie about your tears) that freedom means going bezirk to you..;(

  160. Phred

    The previous rigime treated everybody better than what THIS ANC regime does! Only the crimmals were not treated like angels like this regime does..so if you complain about the previous regime, you must be a criminal 😉

  161. Renette says:

    Ukweshwama or the ritual, torturous killing of a bull is a satanic blood sacrifice ceremony to ‘draw’ the strength and bravery of the bull to themselves, which supposedly gives them victory in war (and sport.) Anchestral worship is always based on physical blood sacrifice – and it is always the helpless and the innocent that are tortured, killed, and murdered. The more heinous the torture, the stronger the ‘muti or ‘medicine’ that gives them demonic power. The word ‘barbaric’ fails to describe such inhumane, cruel insanity – which they call ‘tradition’ and ‘healing!’

  162. Fully behind you Renette….. I find it difficult to comprehend hoe primitavive a savage must be to believe he will get the courage of the bull after being such a coward killing an animal trusting it’s master! To hell with all savages! I don’t even want to discuss them and their foolishness any longer…let the “house of windsor” who is just as satanic carry on regard them as human..

  163. jeannette marriott says:

    This is barbaric and needs to change,How can they justify killing an animal just to make them feel good about their selves.I have read other information about this so called tradition,and there is much more that the bull is put through than it says on this site.NO ANIMAL DESERVES TO BE PUT THROUGH THIS KIND of treatment.The world is watching and i choose to speak up for those that have no voice!!

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