Desmond Tutu tax the whites cartoon

Desmond Tutu Tax the Whites

Tax the Whites – Outrageous, or not?

Last week, Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, addressed an audience in Stellenbosch and called for a wealth tax to be imposed on all white South Africans. Over the last week, newspapers have been flooded with outrage letters about what a racist Tutu is, and how he should be stripped of his Nobel Peace prize. But is his proposition really that outrageous?

Consider the essence of Tutu’s call: white South Africans, regardless of whether they supported the apartheid regime or not, benefited from its policies. The fact that this benefit was unfair, is one that cannot be refuted. The Archbishop’s call last week, is an attempt to make amends for that unfair advantage.

If one considers the corporate world, unethical behaviour that results in unfair benefit is punished by fines – take, for example, Pioneer Foods who were fined R195M for their role in the bread price-fixing saga in 2010. The only lot that expressed anything vaguely resembling outrage then, was Pioneer Foods. Even in that case, the facts were irrefutable.

Applying that principle, however, to many individuals is not quite so simple. The obvious point of distinction is that not all whites benefited equally from apartheid. Surely then, it would be unfair to impose an equal penalty on all whites – wealth tax or otherwise.

Further, since apartheid was dismantled, another group of individuals also derived an unfair advantage from the new regime. Through their connections and often their own positions in the political food chain, they managed to secure lucrative deals for themselves. Why should this unfair advantage not be fined?

The answer, in terms of a practical way forward, lies in one word: wealth. All this unfair advantage has to amount to something, and wealth is it.

Regardless of race, Wonkie believes South Africa should impose a once-off wealth tax – and the emphasis here is on once-off. The goal of this tax should be to make reparations for unfair advantage and the only criteria for discrimination is the amount of wealth – not race.

Yes, there will be some that acquired their wealth through fair and ethical behaviour, so there will be collateral damage. With measures like this, it would be hard to avoid it but Wonkie advocates, particularly given the severely skewed distribution of wealth in South Africa, that this damage will likely be minimal.

The reason the penalty should be a once-off tax and not an ongoing tax, is that history has clearly demonstrated the benefits of free market principles. The free market is fundamentally based on competitors aspiring to gain advantage over each other. This advantage, one would expect, would be regulated by the likes of an honest Competition Commission and the judicial system after the once-off tax is implemented. That after all, is their job.

Of course, there are a couple of essential prerequisites for implementing such a tax and South Africa is very far from having either of these in place.

  1. An accountable government that is largely free of corruption; and
  2. A concrete plan of action for redress, together with measurable performance metrics

Without both the above conditions in firmly place, any wealth tax would be worthless for its true purpose. At worst, it would be pocketed by thieving scoundrels that are unworthy. At best, it would be squandered by incompetent government officials who would insist they are focused on service delivery.

Leave YOUR COMMENT on the idea of a once-off wealth tax for ALL South Africans.

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Related articles:

Also, read Pierre de Vos’s excellent article on this subject at Constitutionally Speaking.

Click to leave YOUR 2 CENTS on the Desmond Tutu, and his view on taxing the whites.

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Comments

  1. Spiritwolf says:

    well they are welcome to my car debt, my overdraft interest every month, toll gate fees, petrol tax, road tax, food tax, salary tax, my 100% tax on car allowance..so thats meaningless.. i mean i live in permanent credit anyways. so i wonder what there plan is when all the so called “whites” that benifited from apartheid, not that i did mind you, i wish i had millions like juju so i could be taxed because i benifited..but at the end of the day i am just trying to make ends meet through hard work, and not sitting back and saying to people gimme gimme because back at school people called me funny names and it impacted my life. so when blacks are still broke, and whites are broke, and everyones broke, except the politicians and black diamonds and the rich, whats next on the agenda? breathing tax i tell you. if you breath your taking previously disadvantaged air..

  2. Bongiwe Qotyiwe says:

    This wealth tax must apply to everybody that is rich, regardless of colour, starting from Juju.

  3. Spiritwolf says:

    and so by the way, tax for a seperate class is racist, however way you want to spin it, like for example blacks needed a pass to be out and about..white tax indeed, no not racist whatsover……perish the thought.

  4. Des oh des, my favourite struggle veteran, I fear that your role in Jock of the Bushveld has gone to your head.. Spiritwolf tells it as it is, we are all broke and in debt except for ANCYL tenderpreneurs, are they going to pay a criminal tax as they are benefiting from their finger-in-the-pie activities. C’mon Mzu what do you say?

  5. A once off tax on wealthy people is a very fair idea. But – all wealthy people and the money is not handled by any government department. A totall independent body made up of all levels of society, business and reputable NGO’s to distribute any money and all dealings to be totally transparent and open to public scrutiny at all times. Under no circumstances must the present government be able to get their hands on any of this money. They have proved that they cannot be trusted.

  6. i am 39 years old and only started to work in 1991, 3 years before the anc took over. i did not benefit out of the old era, i will not pay any taxes what so ever!!! before i do that, i will rather imigrate to namibia, wont think twice about it. for how long do we whites still have to feel guilty for the others that had their own of everything and did not make anything of it. SORRY THAT I AM WHITE!!!!

  7. Collitjies says:

    Toll roads are just yet another form of tax, yet taxi operators who make thousands daily are exempt from any form of tax including toll roads. This racist, as most whites are using these toll roads to be able to earn an honest living. Once their monthly salary is paid they have to pay income tax. Its never ending. No wonder so many families have opted to go overseas to greener pastures.

  8. There would be no maize, potatoes or chicken. How could you live without KFC, fatboy would be thinboy or maybe starving boy.
    Mzu are you there, we are all waiting to mock your bile and racist hatred.

  9. notaround says:

    I despair ……………….as Spiritwolf put it so well, not all whites benefited and those that did has fled the country, most of them. The rest of us are trying to make do and survive despite BEE and reverse racism as we have no choice. Where are we to go at our age, our children wants to leave and we try to keep them here to help rebuild the country that first the NP and now the ANC want to wreck.

  10. Brett Marshall says:

    I fully agree, and i would be more than willing to pay over say 50% of my wealth as at, say, 01/03/98, plus interest for the intervening period. However i would then expect to have heard the last of apartheid victimhood and an end to blaming whites for everything wrong in this country.

  11. BEE (Basic Education Elapsed) says:

    Just antoher way to create more for fraud to make it disapear…..steel our own money if you want more for your fraudulant “commorades” to make disapear.

  12. why must i be held responsible if i only worked for 3 years before the anc took over? what did i benefit out of that, o, i forgot, i must be accounted for everything for the rest of my life torwards black people only because I AM WHITE! what is the black peoples problem with whites? cant we all just work together for the future of south africa, o, sorry i forgot only whites work, the rest steel.

  13. i am raelly starting to get fucking irritated with this bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Moolius Jalema and Mzu both say “Prada? No way will I wear shoes from the whites. I’ll take the shoes of that chink – Jimmy Woo – Yellow is better than white.” Just wait ’til the Chinese take over.

  15. BEE (Basic Education Elapsed) says:

    It’s just an idea that is grounded in equity, not discrimination. EQUITY MEANS DISCRIMINATION (SOURCE: ANC DICTIONARY FOR PDAP)

  16. I was so shocked with that statement from Tutu, I never thought that he you play they race game, showing his age me thinks.

    I would say just do a once off wealth tax to ALL rich South Africans – and you would find out that not many whites are “rich” anymore.
    And what about the BBBEE SCORE CARD that some people have to produce nowadays, this is also a tax.

  17. How sad it must be to be black in SA
    So disadvantaged, so many complexes,
    so many chips on paranoid shoulders.
    I’m surprised the industry of psychology isn’t
    creaming their pennies worth from
    a nation of blacks that are so filled
    with envy for whites it can only be
    that they want to BE WHITE.
    Shame.
    Desmond, do you secretly, in your heart of hearts
    Want To Be White.

  18. Erm – what about those of us that were in nappies? Or those that WEREN’T EVEN BORN?!?! Kids that were born post-Apartheid are now starting to take on employment… they’ll be paying this bullshit tax too! I pay my taxes just like everybody else – and I’m guilty of nothing other that working my young, white PRESENTLY DISADVANTAGED ass off for my crust at the end of the day. Now I must be expected to pay tax on the colour of my flesh?! I’ve always stood up for this country, always maintained that despite its problems it’ll always be home. But when this kind of thing happens I can’t help but feel that this place doesn’t deserve my tax, my work or my talent. Stuff it, I’ll go live somewhere I can do by bit in peace.

  19. So glad that this is only for the wealthy we are so poor we do not even know how to spell the word TAX anymore. Is Wonkie sure it is tax and not taxi cause they have never paid tax before. I guess to solve this color problem we would have to use the following basic color BROWN: Dark brn, medium brn, light brn and beige brn that way we are all the same basic color. I love the sun so I qualify as light brown with my tan. Those with red hair and freckles: spotted brn.

  20. Lets Play says:

    Well said…..Peace

  21. Stuff them. I may be white, but I was descriminated against for my religion in those years and because I was English. Was there not a once off tax many years ago to address this very same issue or a similar issue. The problem is they are lazy and corrupt and now want to blame the whites again. Screw them, time for TUTU to kick the bucket. He also benefitted from all the whites that contributed to his church.

  22. lize… I am afraid your complete ignorance and lack of understanding of how you benefited directly and from the historical legacy of apartheid is profound and even trying to explain would be pointless. You and the numerous other in the “chattering class” who whine about being “victimised” for being “white” (which you seem to wear with some pride) are as bad as juju and his mob; different sides of the same coin really…

  23. Eish people this will surely not happen Tutu just got his speech confused he must have memorised it and believe me at that age, the most you can miss is your memory. So lets not take it serious. There can easily be a scale to calculate who is wealthy. I should think it is someone who owns a luxury home worth more then R8mil have 2 Luxury vehicles per person and have a holiday home or homes and often rent them to either, family , employees or friends. This should apply to all races in this country. The rest own what they worked extremely hard for.

  24. Screw the tax. We have paid in more ways than one already. Many lost jobs to make way for bee, farmers murdered, women raped, cars jacked, houses broken into. I think the wealth has been distributed. Screw Tutu and his merry band. No more.

  25. The same principle should be advanced for the relinquishing of some land which was racially shared

  26. A comment for Wonkie.
    Could someone please tell me why mense
    are so against the wealthy.
    Me, I’m poor as most blacks, (no joke),
    But its the not so wealthy, the wealthy and
    the super wealthy who give me work.
    So too for the rest of us.
    It takes a very special person to do huge
    corporate endeavours and like any queen bee,
    she needs an army to make the hive happen.
    Just imagine for one moment that the
    5% or 10% that wonkie speaks of had to quietly
    disappear into the woodwork for just one
    month, south Africa would be back in the dark ages in that period.
    We need the rich as much as they need us.
    I’m not saying that rich people who
    think they special because
    of it are in the right, they use the loo just
    like the rest of us but dammit most rich people
    got that way because they have something
    that us, the working class
    don’t have, the ability to make cash, l
    loads of it, why discourse this, it shows envy and
    envy is a weak, petty
    emotion.
    Grow up folks.
    If you want to be rich, DO IT, don’t winge and whine,
    make it happen, like they did.
    A guy in a township with a weed eater gets less than half of
    what he would get if he did a larnies garden.
    ???, hello, blacks really know hoe to exploit
    their own people, take a look at African history.
    I’m amazed, I truly am.

  27. Urgent remedial action is required to narrow the gap between rich and poor.
    “And this remedial action must start right with the cabinet ministers. My special appeal to them is: There is much dehumanising poverty abroad. There are people in our country who, unbelievably, go to bed without a meal.

    “Your handbook(cabinet ministers) permits you to buy glamorous cars and live in luxury homes and most of you have done so.
    “In the spirit of ubuntu to show that you care, that you are compassionate, please sell your expensive cars and replace them with slightly less pricey cars -­ to show that you care about these poor people.

    “Your humanity depends on it”.

  28. If you go and do your homework, you will see that South Africa has produced more White millionaires after the ANC came into power then ever before. The reason for this is because the people in power are so bloody stupid that the white man grabs every oppertunity he gets to make money. Now, do I have to pay for their stupidity??? I don’t think so. Ever watched Planet of the apes? well thats South africa…people doing all the work but the monkeys are on their horses rulling!!!

  29. notaround says:

    Wonkie, this is a misquote apparently: please see here

    “One of the major recommendations the TRC made was to say that the gap between the rich and the poor is wide, it is dangerously wide, and we recommended that something ought to be done quickly to narrow this gap.
    “Because as we know, South Africa has become notorious as being the worst example of the disparity between rich and poor.
    “And there was a suggestion about a once-off wealth tax, and there were many who supported it in the white community. My appeal is, do you think you might consider agitating for something akin to this?”

    this is the actual link to the speech on youtube

  30. notaround says:
  31. Are they stupid or what? The riches people in South Africa isn’t the White, but The black people. The politicians in South Africa are the riches hiding behind “we are caring for the poor”, they are not they are enriching them self before caring for the poor through corruption in tenders and contracts.Are they still busy with Apardheid, ITS BEEN 17 YEARS of democracy and nothing has changed they are still poor with no work, money or house and racism has changed from the white towards the black to the black towards the white. They sould get a life

  32. Spiritwolf says:

    PM repeating yourself doesnt make your statements more impactfull, in fact, less so. And we all know by now, where there is smoke there is fire. so if its suggested might you not think they may be seriously thinking of it. Your ostrich put your head in the sand mentatily doesnt work, with that kind of attitude it is exactly the reason why this country is becoming as bad as the UK in terms of TAX. Please do be a realist and wake up and smell the coffee. It starts with: reduce payout reasons for road accident fund, this has happened, next is pensions for everyone and tax it. next toll gates, next nationalisation of mines etc, next governement newspaper, oh i could mention many many things that started with a little spark, but have progressively built on the back of the other, when one day you pull your head out the i dont want to hear this sand, and say, what happened?

  33. People have short memories. During the 80′s our sanctimonious bishop suggested to”focus and attack soft targets, such as school busses!” Is the call to killing children tax-free? Did the arch pay tax on his Nobel Prize money? How is this tax situation regarding his overseas speaking engagements, which he does not do for free?
    He really outdid himself with his speech! Beware of men wearing dresses!

  34. UPDATE: People, please READ the article carefully – it’s commentary on Tutu’s suggestion of a prosperity tax – this is NOT a notification of a tax that is going to be implemented. It’s an idea to think about – that’s all.

    Wonkie is suggesting that a properly implemented wealth tax should affect a maximum of about 5% – 10% of the total population, the richest of the rich. Emphasising again, as Wonkie has in this article, that this tax should be regardless of race – it is based on the amount of wealth. Tenderpreneurs included.

    So, @notaround, @spiritwolf, @garth – don’t despair. It’s an idea that is grounded in equity, not discrimination. Besides, do you see Wonkie’s two prerequisites in the article being met in the next decade? A government free of corruption… right.

  35. Andre Piek says:

    @white – I don’t think anybody has anything against the rich – you’re right, we need people that think like that – entrepreneurs. This article though, is about who amassed those riches unfairly – do you believe those guys should be able to get away with it at the expense of others.

    I’m Afrikaner but I don’t have a problem with such a tax (of course I seriously doubt I would fall into the 5-10% of the richest category.. far from it! ;)) IF it is managed WELL and that is what Wonkie’s prerequisites are about. Our current bunch of crooks (aka ANC government) are not equipped to manage that tax and the rollout for such programmes.

    If people live and amass wealth fairly, there is enough for everybody – I really believe that.

  36. Kevin Busby says:

    I think this notion is utter crap ! You say that this “one off tax” is predicated upon a trustworthy government…ha ha ha what a laugh ! This is amother example of African democracy. No wonder skilled whites are leaving in droves for Australia and New Zealand. Whites are already carrying the burden of taxation in this country, despite reverse discrimination taking place in the labour market.

  37. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Zip – your reason for the increased number of white millionaires is very far from the whole truth – the biggest reason is that the ‘guvvenmunt’ has so mishandled just about everything in the last 12 years that the Rand is no longer paper but one of the smallest coins in your pocket. A million 12 years ago is the equivalent of 10+ these days – so all those who had R100000 then would easily be millionaires now.

  38. We all know very well that billions if not trillions of rand has landed in a few elite’s bank accounts. no secret. The point is: There is no way the country will or can ever get it back, more then likely most of it in Malaysian bank accounts like Robber Moogarhby, How many are under suspension on for I think more then a year with full pay?? on account of irregularities > the case what has happened to that?? What are those under suspension doing now?? This week again our drug trafficker wife of a minister … I stopped reading the article was too upset thinking, is she going to pay for the rehab of all the addicts she is responsible for, what future does she thinks the kids will have as an addict, as that what you call social responsibility for the people you are suppose to serve.. What a soul destroying this issue is..

  39. Lynn Ambler says:

    I have always been an admirer of ArchBishop TUTU, but the proposition of taxing all whites is outrageous, especially when so much of or tax money is diverted to the benefit of politicians and others that have cost the country millions. Many of us worked our hearts out to bring about the scrapping of apartheid much to our own personal costs and those of us wh have remained in South Africa despite the corruption and crime, certainly don’t need to be punished. I would be happy to contribute more to the genuinely disadvantaged, but with the squandering of state finances, and the reluctance of the ANC to get its house in order, bearing the brunt of Eskom, the arms deal, etc, I have very little to spare and am still forced to work at the age of 70. Keep it real!

  40. Emeritus is getting senile, just like Bob.
    White tax payers has been carrying this country on their backs since ’94 and all the ANC has done, was to stuff themselves like pigs.
    No, the only ones who needs to pay-up now is the ANC fat-cats. No-more white tax.
    Viva Afrikaner independence !

  41. Neville Laing says:

    This religious ho dad is unreal. It is obvious despite his genial demenor he obviously hates the whites. his religion says he must forgive others tohave his sins forgiven so Desmond what about it? He is a first class hypocritite. He lived in very upmarket Bishops court and similar digs and his wayward son Trevor went to the snob school Bishops.(Diocean College), so they didnt exactly suffer too much under Apartheid!

  42. Consider the proposed Financial Transaction Tax (FTT) or by it’s funner name the Robin Hood tax! :) It sounds like such a fine idea on paper and video at least…check out the dramatization video explaining the proposed tax by a British actor on this site. http://robinhoodtax.org/

  43. Wonkie and Tutu are crazy….. Any extra taxation would only end up in the wrong pockets. Let him rather ask Malema who seems to be able to wave a magic wand for money

    Lets assume as Youth league President I earn R50,000 a month. During my 4 year period, that would equal R2,400,000
    After an 8 year period I would have earned R4,800,000 (Four million eight hundred thousand Rand)
    Besides my fancy cars and lifestyle, how am I ever going to pay for the R16,000,000 home I am busy building??????? He seems very confident in his magic wand.

  44. @PM you should do a whole truth cartoon on the proposed robin hood tax…it would be fun! :)

  45. notaround says:

    jjuuuuuuhuuuu guys, you are up in arms for nothing the man was misquoted??

  46. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Ron – don’t be greedy now – Moolius only “earns” half of what you assume you would get. So maybe he has two magic wands the second one to double the effect of the first.

  47. I have downloaded the Robin hood tax but have not yet read it.
    Net profits are taxed already, are they going to maximize the ceiling for normal tax and over and above that ceiling introduce super tax. What about Capital reserves that is required for further business expansions and upgrades? This is just one simple question. Our normal working class should obviously not be effected. Many will disinvest on the stock exchange due to the huge reduction in dividends. I should actually go read the comments. By the way does TUTU have a degree in economics???

  48. @Peace the global financial system is just an imaginary thing! Created by the dreams, hopes, fears and tears of many and yet few!

    If Robin Hood took one of the two thousand or so vases in one of a billionaire’s many fine collection of things golden and diamond studded he might not realise it even…at least not right away! But the just one golden diamonded studded vase might help reduce the rate on some fine peasants mortgage by a few hundred or feed a few thousand. So if you took just one golden diamond studded vase from a few billionaires and few thousand millionaires and a few more thousand fairly rich people…well…you’d have that multilplier effect! I’m not sure how the tax will work out in reality though and people will always be trying to set up systems to evade so there!

  49. Mr Desmond’s call only means that there are blacks freedom fighters who pretended that the process of truth and reconciliation was not enough,but they failed to show it by then.This sows a lot of confussions now that they are’most of them’plundering the country’s wealth.to me tjiz is an opportunistic call to please the youth league and its friendz,so the better wY i think is to readress the bulk of issues like race,tenders,poverty,nepotism in governmnt etc.stopping the cycle of this misfortune will improve government public relationship than punishing people for ones own perseption.

  50. The whole system is bad, taxes are misused . Study the ancient law. Taxes then was used to sustain and uplift the poor. The poor all had houses, built of rock and sand. These systems as they are now has been quoted years ago, the rich will be richer and the poor poorer but it will come to an end and not that far away either. Thank God.

  51. All White must pay for past attrocoties!! Pay Once off tax, and next year again, and the next year again, for equal amount of years apartheid was arround, for every year the apartheid was in effect, because that is every year whites minortised us. The Great white shark of yesterday is the extinct sardine of today. get over it.

  52. As an “english” speaking South African I was also disadvantaged. I am now unable to find a job since 2009 due to the color of my skin and age. perhaps Desmond Tutu would like to explain to my children why they must suffer because of my circumstances. Currently disadvantaged!

  53. Reasonable says:

    I’m not against a once-off wealth tax, by big problem is where this tax is going to end up. I fear it will end up in the pockets of certain already unfairly super-rich folk who think the colour of their skin equals being non-racist, perfectly fair and justified in whatever they take unjustly.

  54. Gee whizz, have not heard so much drival in a long time, and this is a man of God. Many people in other countries also go to bed without food, I wonder if they also have to pay wealth tax.

  55. Great article Wonkie thanks. Wealth is what Tutu should have based his arguement not race however if we could look at the sats of rich people in SA in percentages and also try to trace how the wealth was acquired we would go to what he says. It is evident in SA today that whites constitute a large number of the rich, more than 60% to be precise and the source of that wealth is apartheid benefits. The poor whites constitute the middle class and that is also an apartheid benefit. We cannot divorce the two then because they are inseperable, wealth was in the hands of the whites because of apartheid. I do not know why whites would be reluctant to give back the ill-gotten wealth because they know that their forefathers came here without any agreement what so ever and stole what was here. Some say they just wanted to build a refreshment station here on their way to Asia but that also wasn’t agreed uppon by the indeginous and them. However all of this doesn’t mean that blacks who are doing the same thing are right. They should also return what they have stolen in the past 17 years because it does not belong to them but to all black people in SA. Lossprev as an English speaking British you should look for work in Britain, I’m sure that shows you that you’re not welcome.

  56. Most of us pay tax every month and where has most of it gone, when we look around and see how all the state institutions are going backwards everyday, so wealth tax will just find the same pockets as our normal tax. Wealth tax should not be paid to government but to honest group or forums that will spend it on facilities for the poor. The newspapers should print reports on how much and from where the money came and on what it is spent on. This must be audited monthly before publication.

  57. I agree fully with you Impi. Whites must not pay tax but return all of the wealth that was stolen for them to inherit.

  58. we are being taxed heavily anyway, why worry, our gov, is making sure that we remain poor at all cost. here is a list of taxes we pay.
    1. paye
    2. site
    3. Driving your car tax ( soon to be introduced ” toll fees” )
    4. excise duties
    5. NHI Tax ( soon to be introduced )
    6. VAT
    7. Heavy tax on my beer
    8. Heavy tax on my cigarrettes
    9. some one help me add to the list, I lost other taxes as I was righting this.

  59. This is To NGOBE and To the prevoisly Disadvantged:
    We are sorry that our ancestors were intelligent, advanced and daring enough to explore the wild oceans to discover new countries and develop them.
    We are sorry that those who came before us took you out of the bush and taught you that there was more to life than beating drums, killing each other and chasing animals with sticks and stones.
    We are sorry that they planned, funded and developed roads, towns, mines, factories, airports and harbours, all of which you now claim to be your long deprived inhetitance given you every right to change and rename these at your discretion.
    We are sorry that our parents taught us the value of small but strong families, to not breed like rabbits and end up as underfed, diseased, illiterate shack dwellers living in poverty.
    We are sorry that when apatheid government provided you with schools, you decided they’d look better without windows or in piles of ashes.
    We happily gave up those bad days of getting spanked for doing something wrong, and much prefer these days of freedom where problems can be resolved with knives and guns.
    We are sorry that it is hard to shake off the bitterness of the past when you keep on raping, torturing and killing our friends and family members, and then hide behind the fence of “human rights”with smiles on your faces.
    We are sorry that we don’t trust the goverment….We have no reason to be so suspicious because none of these poor hard working intellectuals have ever been involvrd in any form of corruption or irreqularities.
    We are sorry that we don’t trust the police force and, even though they openly admitted that they lost the war against crime and criminals, we should not be negative and just ignore their corruption and carry on hoping for the best.
    We are sorry that it is more important to you to have players of colour in our national teams than winning games and promoting patriotism. We know that sponsorship doesn’t depend on a team’s success.
    We are sorry that our border posts have been flung open and now left you competing for jobs against illegal immigrants from our beaytiful neighbouring countries.
    All of them, countries that have grown into economic power housesafter kicking out the ‘settlers’….?
    We are sorry that we don’t believe in witchcraft, beet root and garlic cures, urinating on street corners, virginity testing, slaughtering of bulls in our back yard, trading woman for cattle and other barbaric practises, maybe we just grew up differentely.
    We are sorry that our midical care, water supplies, roads, railways and electricity supplies are going down the toilet because skilled people who could have planned for and resolvrd these issues had to be thrown away because they were of the wrong ethnic backround and now have to work in foreighn countries where their skills are appreciated.
    We are so sorry that we’d like this country to fulfil its potential so we once again be proud South Africans.

    PS: In the old regime…..we had lights and water

  60. This is for Ngobe, do you for one minute think you are going to smell any of that money, think again mate.

  61. This whole lot of correspondence is very scary. The hate, misunderstanding and stupidity defy description. White people have as much right to live in South Africa as black people. Get over it and let’s all build a nation in which we can live in reasonable harmony and at least minimise the have vs have not situation. Try and apply you mind to the problem rather than repeating empty rhetoric which you have heard before. Think long term and inclusively. The truth of the matter is that we will all sink or swim together. Unfortunately for the uneducated and illiterate that’s the way it has to be and you will all have to learn to play together whether you like it or not.

  62. PM – please don’t forward any replies to my mail – the levels of cretinism of the respondents is mind-numbing…

  63. Forums can either be constructive or destructive, PM should delete any race discrimination remarks. We can either contribute positively and help find solutions as the current problems in our country effects all of us or we will just destroy the little bit hope that remains. While we still alive we have hope so lets rather encourage everyone, and please do not forget the good humor that all of us enjoy.

  64. Truth is either constructive or destructive. Hiding it under carpets is even more destructive. Today was shaped by yesterday and it will shape tommorow.

  65. that’s wonderful, a very brilliant idea

  66. There are 6 million taxpayers in SA. Of which 3 million are white. It is they that support the other 45 million or so. We therefore already have a wealth tax. When the NHI is implemented it will be the same 6 million who pay and pay more for their private health care because state medical has not yet been fixed. If it ever does get fixed it will again be the 6 million who pay. A wealth tax used to be called supertax, in countries that introduced it the wealthy started leaving or placing their investments in other countries thus leading to a downfall in industry in those countries and an exit of the educated.
    It is axiomatic that there is a limit to the tax rate which if exceeded will begin to gather lower taxes how high do we go before we stop earning or bugger off overseas (Mzu would like that). Kampanga, mzu and a few other misguided souls also want to take over the land. All that will do is turn productive farms into wasteland or famine threatened sub subsistence back breaking agriculture and goat farming that will damage the land and not provide enough food to feed everybody. (Welcome Somalia). Mzu your latest comment is unintelligible crap.

  67. Our children is paying the penalty on our behalf as jobs and universities are now reserved. Same crime as apartheid as the youth was not part of apartheid

  68. Garth please do not take Mzu serious she is still learning and can learn a lot from you, I see that you know what you talk about and I keep your comments. There are a lot of us (black) that do not want SA to become a wasteland but most are looking for is to find work. Yesterday is gone forever and can never come back today is always the day to put things right. Who knows if tomorrow will be there, nobody can say it will. Big earthquakes all over the world at the same time and most of it gone.

  69. quote:”Mzu
    August 19th, 2011 at 11:37 am
    I agree fully with you Impi. Whites must not pay tax but return all of the wealth that was stolen for them to inherit.”

    LOL … so go to the British and ask them for it … are you daft???

  70. Bishop Desmond Tutu the day you critizise the ANC and Co for their unbridled corruption , the trade unions ,Malema,Mzu,etc., then you will gain some integrity,right now there are more then enough laws , taxes ,and discriminatory laws to hinder white and coloured children in RSA,look around drive through the Elite suburbs,Blacks and Indians live there , maybe some whites and not likely coloureds,drive on the roads , best cars?,anti white and coloured job descrimination,and so on .Sop whithey bashing , go to the pulpit and preach for everyone to go to work so hat more jobs can be createde instead of the non stop trade union crap

  71. Suppose that every evening, 10 men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to R100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this :-

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay R1.
    The sixth would pay R3.
    The seventh would pay R7.
    The eighth would pay R12.
    The ninth would pay R18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay R59.

    So, that’s what they decided to do……. The 10 men drank in the bar every evening and were quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner said,
    “Since you are all such good customers, I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by R20?.
    Drinks for the 10 men would now cost just R80.
    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the R20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realised that R20 divided by six is R3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

    Therefore, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing.
    The sixth now paid R2 instead of R3 (33% saving).
    The seventh now paid R5 instead of R7 (28% saving).
    The eighth now paid R9 instead of R12 (25% saving).
    The ninth now paid R14 instead of R18 (22% saving).
    The tenth now paid R49 instead of R59 (16% saving).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

    “I only got a rand out of the R20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got R10!”
    “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a rand too. It’s unfair – he got 10 times more benefit than me!”
    “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get R10 back, when I got only R2? The wealthy always win!”
    “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
    And that, boys and girls, journalists, labour unions and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

  72. Tax the people who live in Bishop’s Court. Like our Desmond. What a hypocrite. Seldom in the history of humanity has a race had the dice so loaded in their favour like blacks in this country

  73. Mzu. Your forefathers also came here and stole from the Khoi-San peoples. Are you going to pay a wealth tax to compensate them??????????

  74. Impi your comment is tops. Who knows what tomorrow will bring but we all can make a difference today. Encourage the heavily burdened, uplift the poor, motivate each other, support all those around us that needs it. Slowly it will develop into a national response for the better. The current tax system is fair and should not be changed. What would help is a 100% tax on income derived from corruption, the only change needed. That way we may recover billions of the trillions that has been stolen from the public the past 16 years.
    I am sure Tutu should agree.

  75. Amazing how all can just easily use the phrase misquoted. Be real you said it with intention and meant it at the time. Now it has come back to bite you in the ass and the comment is ” Misquoted ” Lying prick. We redistribute wealth every day, look at most of the beggers at street corners. They are not stupid. They are at those corners for a reason no matter what they look like. Why ? They make more fucking money than you do and they do not pay tax. bunch of suckers. they are the most successful of the lot. Ever noticed that when long weekends and public holidays and Christmas / Easter arrive they are not there. They are on leave spending your money. Bunch of suckers. Screw Tutu and his merry men. Was his own son not charged with some crime??. There are many more wealthy blacks than whites. How did they suddenly appear. Not through skills. maybe false degrees or nepotism or maybe cash heists. Maybe that explains JuJu’s unexplained wealth. Amazing that very few cash heist king pins have ever been caught and no money recovered. Where is it. Change the currency immediately and see this wealth suddenly disappear.

  76. A very profound statement ………………

    “You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
    ~~~~ Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931

    On a lighter note ………………….

    JULIUS : Hello, I would like to order some guns, please.
    Gunsmith: Some what? (The line is bad.)

    JULIUS : Guns (Getting louder)

    Gunsmith: Sorry I can hardly hear, please repeat.

    JULIUS : (Very loud now) GUNS! G for Jeep, U for Europe, N for knowledge and S for Eskom.
    GUNS!!

  77. GatvolinSA says:

    Right now in South Africa we have superheros (the fabulously wealthy who are above the law, exempt from most of the civil niceties the rest of us follow etc) and the normals (those who work their asses off to earn enough to go to bed with something in their bellies, dont have a car, dont own their own homes, cant afford decent medical etc). Yes there is a disparity but it is there because WE the people LET it be there. A wealth tax would not be a terrible idea IF and only if it were handled properly. Implement it today and like the Gautrain, a project that should have cost x will end up costing more than twice that with no explanation of where the money vanished to or how. The people crying loudest for a wealth tax on the whites seem to be wealthy blacks….funny how they are not calling for a wealth tax on THEIR riches to help the poor hmm?

    One day this country will tax their golden goose (whites guilt-ed into eternal indentured servitude to the greedy and corrupt) to the point where it falls over dead from laying such huge golden eggs. Then they will find themselves in serious trouble because suddenly the free ride will be over and the gravy train will derail quite spectacularly. I wait for that day.

  78. Wonkie get all this polititions and ask them to take on kind in there house and provide for that street kid or kids from the rural areas or from the farms. Then Tutu and any one can start talking of white man taxes. Stop rassisme and start to think in this land who can we take hands together and make this economic work so that all the people in this land can bennifet. Talking of Nasonalization. You now how can we do it is take the skill persons and put them back in the post and give an unskilld person who are preaperd to learn from each other. Lower all the persons salaries, taxes and provide work. Let the state bring in 2 year force services for men and women. Let them been trained and taught what is dissipline the this gungsters will been out of the communitys. Give the young persons work there is nothing to do for them they do not know where they belong. Give the mothers comfort to give them a allowns for food as what they give to pregnant women money. This is a key to make more children. Stop to give more and more increases because if you see what is the time period a worker spend at work. Wonkie
    start to work on this because I talk out off experiance. There is no hetlp from DTI or Nef or anu Banks. The banks would not help you at all.

  79. Joey we are trying to get accurate statistics on the following; % of population earning above R1,000,000, R500.000 R250.000 ; R60,000 per annum and those less then R60,000 per annum. This would be an indication of the % of the rich of the population as well as the % of normal tax working class tax paid. Statistics of S A citizens holding shares in companies to the value of more then R100,000 on JSE. Getting the correct stats we may be able to find a way to solve problems such as redistribution of wealth on a % basis from those earning above R750.000 per annum

  80. You live in fantasy world guys. Whites did not work for what they have now, they fought for it illegaly. They are thieves, rapists and should not live with other races because they have proven themselves unworthy of co-existing.

  81. Lynn Ambler says:

    Mzu; do you really believe what you are saying? or are you just trying to provoke reactions? I would suggest that you stop it, whatever you are doing, because you simply show yourself up to be an ignorant racist bigot and certainly detract from the wonderful work done by Mandela, Luthli, Sizulu, Tambo and other great men who for for freedom and democracy

  82. Lynn do not freak out on Mzu’s comments she is just PLAYING devils advocate

  83. Lynn, Blacks cannot be racists as we have no political, economical, religious power to do so. Maybe you don’t even know the meaning of the term racist. Well I wil help you with that. Racism (White Supremacy) is the local and

    global power system and dynamic, structured

    and maintained by persons who classify

    themselves as white, whether consciously or

    subconsciously determined, which consists of

    patterns

    thought, speech, action and emotional

    response, as conducted simultaneously in all

    areas of people activity (economics, education,

    entertainment, labour, law, politics, religion,

    sex

    genetic survival and to prevent white genetic

    annihilation on planet earth – a planet upon

    which

    as

    white skinned people, and all of the nonwhite

    people are genetically dominant (in terms of

    skin colouration) compared to the genetic

    recessive white skinned people”, Dr Frances

    Cress Welsing. That is the meaning of racism Lynn.

  84. Lynn Ambler says:

    MZU, thank you for your attempt to educate me in the meaning of racism. However, the real meaning of racism: Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in people’s traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race, however defined, and that, as a consequence, racial discrimination (i.e. different treatment of those people, both socially and legally) is justified.

    In the modern English language, the term “racism” is used predominantly as a pejorative epithet. It is applied especially to the practice or advocacy of racial discrimination of a pernicious nature (i.e. which harms particular groups of people), and which is often justified by recourse to racial stereotyping or pseudo-science. Modern usage, in fact, often equates “racism” and “racial discrimination” and defines the latter term only as applying to pernicious practices. Differential treatment of racial groups that is intended to ameliorate past discrimination, rather than to harm, goes by other names (e.g. affirmative action); the characterization of this practice as “racism”, “racial discrimination” or “reverse discrimination” is normally only done by its opponents, and typically implies a belief in the harmful nature of the practice with respect to the groups not receiving assistance.

    Racism is popularly associated with various activities that are illegal or commonly considered harmful, such as extremism, hatred, xenophobia, (malignant or forced) exploitation, separatism, racial supremacy, mass murder (for the purpose of genocide), genocide denial, vigilantism (hate crimes, terrorism), etc.

    “Racism” and “racial discrimination” are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of their somatic (i.e. “racial”) differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.

  85. notaround says:

    Eish Mzu, you read too much, but like everything you read ( as in the bible ) should not be quoted out of context. Pls note that Frances Cress Welsing said :
    “As a black behavioral scientist and practicing psychiatrist, my own functional definition of racism…………………………” and there it is, in her opinion.
    I agree with you though about white supremacy, but then again who invented the wheel ?? *smile* just joking. South African Dark Complexion People today do seem to have a chip on their shoulder and anyone living here at the moment must surely admit that there is a kind of reverse racism in play, the Light Complexion South African or Immigrant being blamed for everything. The Rainbow Nation exists only in somebody’s la la land of make believe and sadly we are years away from Nelson Mandela’s dream of a United People. Just looking at all the remarks on this page makes me cringe and wish to run away, the hatred is seething between the words and Us and Them.

  86. Notaround – Your contribution is constructive and the issue of my “out of context” quoting is debatable. The reason why the rainbow nation is a forlon dream is because of white suprmacy (Racism). History has proved that no such thing can happen. Blacks have tried to reach out and forge such a forlon dream but the whites have always felt they are supreme and would never level up with blacks. Now there is no way blacks can beg the rapists, thieves and murderes to stop hating them. We do hate each other and we have to live with that.

  87. notaround our country is in a cleaning up process and many of us are at last coming to our senses. This will becoming quite visible in the not so long future from now. There is a group of us working together to rectify our political, and national diversities to form an united population with the same mind and views that is equal for all without any exceptions. It is country wide and structures will come into place for those who do not have the means of electronic communication. Cellphones will be distributed to a person who is able to read and write and by organizing meetings will inform the residents of that community.

  88. notaround says:

    @ Mzu, I feel surely you are only trying to stir trouble here ? I have not and I know not of anyone that has raped, stolen or murdered any black person, whereas I have 2 friends murdered, 1 school friend of my daughters raped and every single person I know, white black coloured indian asian have had thefts and burglaries and hijackings all committed by black people. So heeeeellllooooo !
    by the way I do not hate anyone regardless of their skin colour and I know of no one who does either. I feel sorry for you having to carry such a destructive emotion as hate in your life.

  89. You will never know them by names as they all died now. Jan van Riebeck and his lackeys killed black men upon their arrival and raped black women in South Africa and stole land from them. That is true and we both know that. You will also never know of anyone who hates black people as they keep the feeling inside themselves. I am not a liar and will not try to be righteous knowing that inside I have this feeling that many whites have towards me. Like always people speak of not all whites hate blacks but we’re speaking

  90. Sorry about that. I was saying we’re speaking of only less than 5 % of them globally.

  91. notaround says:

    @ Mzu – you cannot live in the past and give old van Riebeck the blame either, that is just laughable and childish. I am not going to continue this silly conversation.

  92. Mzu, maybe if you let go of the hatred and unforgiveness, you will feel better, as hatred and unforgivness makes you sick and keeps you in bondage. It only means that the people that you hate have a hold on you. Let it go.

  93. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    What South Africa needs right now is not yet ANOTHER tax – and this one based on ethnicity or acquired wealth. What we need is a PUNITIVE TAX on fraudulently acquired wealth – a 100% tax PLUS a jail term measured against the amount of the fraud.
    The other thing that South Africa needs is for a well-known and respected citizen to take a leaf out of Anna Mazare’s book and lead a mass demand for an end to official and other corruption. This little man in India has set fire to the hearts of so many of his countrymen as did Mohandas Ghandi and with his threats (carried out) of hunger strikes or fasts he has galvanised public opinion in India so much that new anti-corruption legislation is being prepared in this archetypical country of corruption. Follow the the link
    http://www.annahazare.org/anticorruption-movement.html
    to read more about this remarkable man.
    Father Desmond – if you knew who was writing this comment you would listen – a clue “West Indian Coca Cola”.
    People – let us find our own Anna Hazare and give him/her all the support that s/he needs – perhaps we will get back the thousands of millions stolen from the honest majority in this beautiful yet sorry mess of a country we call home.

  94. Daffy, Mzu has seen this message over and over again and knows that bitterness and hate causes cancer, so the conclusion may just be that she wants to develop cancer to enable her to claim a disability grant, from the white taxpayers society.

  95. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Apologies for the spelling mistake the first time I mentioned Anna Hazare.

  96. We cannot run away from the fact that history shaped the present. It is easy for those whose history shaped a better today for them to try and erase it when it is still evident today. Try and look for poor whites in SA today and you won’t find them because their forefathers stole so they can be where they are today. Hate causes cancer…lol….. Maybe the entire white race is sick of cancer today.

  97. Mzu, which part of the planet do you live on ?? No poor whites ?? you must be walking around with flaps over you eyes, or you just see what you want to see. Anyway there is no convincing you, you just need to blame somebody and that would be the whites.

  98. I am black men living in this shit white world. Go to all the construction sites and see if you will see a white bricklayer.

  99. notaround says:

    Mzu is on form as per usual LOL

  100. Thanks for noticing Notaround. You know me very well.

  101. Dukie 743 says:

    Have just got back from visiting some countries in South East Asia. Countries that were also colonised but instead of continually whining about their past colonial plight like the moaners of South Africa, the people have rolled up their sleeves and successfully changed the situation. The fact is that Tutu benefitted much from apartheid. I did not hear of him contibuting any of his fabulous nobel prize of millions of rands, to the poor of South Africa. Does his call mean that the family of the late Joe Slovo also pays the ludicrous wealth tax? If anything, with the Zuma administration being the most corrupt in the history of South Africa, the dumb taxpayers of South Africa should be rather witholding their taxes. This government of thieves are literally looting the state coffers to an extent that one day it will run out of money meant for service delivery meant for the poor. As the great Moeletsi Mbeki once progmosticated, the grants intended for the poor is not sustainable and will cease eventually. This will cause a revolution in South Africa that will make the recent events in Libya and the Frnch revolution look like a sunday school outing in the park. The parasite politicians under the machine gun carrying idiot Zuma and Zille, will ignite the revolution through its persistant grreed.

  102. MZU, wake up and spell the roses. You choose your profession. If you do not want to be a brick layer get off your ass and do something about it. For your info there are white brick layers. There are also white dustbin collecters. What planet sre you on . Education is a poor excuse. At CIDA City Campus in Johannesburg black students pay no fees at all. Pay for nothing. The lazy mothers want more. They want parties, but do not want to study. Maybe you came from there, as you are fucking stupid and are only interested in the shit around you. Even the beggers on the street corners have more drive than you and by the way some of them earn up to R 3000 per day. How do you like that. They do not wine, they get on with the job. Have you ever tried offering them a job. They will tell you to fuck off. They earn more on the street corner. Wake up

  103. Absa Fucking Lootly Ridiculous! What about the taxpaying Whities that never knew aparteit South Africa – are they also due to pay the tax? What fucking hogwash!

    Mzu> I have a friend who is an unemployed white welder and no one wants to employ him because of the colour of his skin. Potential employees said he wouldn’t “fit it” with the other black welders. He told them that he has no issue with it and is willing to earn their wages and to give him a chance. Discrimination works both ways!

  104. White and proud says:

    For many years after my return from overseas I could not find any meaningful employment (I was not black enough). I took everything I had and started a business, worked my ass off and made a success. Now I fall in the category that supposedly needs to be taxed – It’s a joke this whole new! improved! SA

  105. Sweet Angel says:

    Its not the fault of all white people that they are rich,there are some black people who are also reach,so why dont that so called wealth tax be imposed to all reach people either black or white!

  106. Exactly , there should be a supertax on all earnings % wise above R750.000 per annum of all earnings including members of parliament starting with the president.

  107. By the way no objection but difficult to understand. Lately I notice that very young black people are driving cars costing more then R350,000 . At such a young age where do they get the money from. to buy them on credit would cost +- R6800 pm insurance excluded. There are many of them driving on main roads in our area. Even when I was working for many years in a top senior position I could never afford to pay that amount on a mv and I think if I could afford it I still would not have bought one as MV are a liability and not an direct asset as disclosed on balance sheets. Thank God for my simple little 2 door car , 6 years old and low running costs.

  108. notaround says:

    @ peace – they have a “job” with someone who needed their colour for a BBEEE certificate and get R 40 000.00 per month for doing zip, cause that is all they can do LOL

  109. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ notaround. What do they do with the zip? And who’s zip?

  110. notaround says:

    @a-maize-ingly-corny – LOL

  111. Dukie 743 says:

    The wealthiest group of people in South Africa are the smelly politicians of all political parties. They have all been plundering the state coffers to enrich themselves since 1994 and do absolutely nothing to help the poor people of South Africa.
    Politicians are batantly and inherently dishonest and are the scumbag parasites of the country. All they do is breathe precious oxygen and steal.

  112. Durkie, you’re dissapointing with your last comment. Look at companies in JSE and tell me if politicians own those companies. If you look at it closer you will see that those are owned by whites who do not even live in SA. Some in Britain and some in the US. You should always check your facts before you divulge them. At the person who spoke of the white welder who cannot find work because he is white, who cares? Am sure he can find work in Britain.

  113. Mzu, I just cannot wrap my head around this much hatred, try to love others, no matter what the colour of their skin you might feel better. Who knows you might be rewarded one day …… Love conquers all.

  114. notaround says:

    @ everyone – I think we should just boycot Mzu from this page as the comments from that side is just destructive and we are not resolving anything by even commenting on it. Mzu just wants to stir shit and is succeeding in upsetting everyone which was the object it seems in the first place. I for one is going to log off to these comments, they do not resolve anything.

  115. You can boycott me… I don’t care. Atleast you know the natives know you for who you are now as I am not only echoing my sentiments here but to my fellow natives as well. One day they will realise that you have to live in order for us to be free. Enjoy Africa while it lasts for the days of your happiness are numbered….. tik tok…..tik tok.

  116. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ notaround – and everyone else – boycotting a person like Mzu does no actual good. We should, however, totally ignore him/her. S/he continually vents his/her spleen on us all so if we ignore him/her that spleen will not be vented, will swell and swell and swell until it finally bursts and that will be the end of Mzu. So shhhh…..

  117. I suggest you all do what I do, when I get a notification on a comment I check the author. if it says mzu straight to the delete button. It can and will not upset your day then. Keep the constructive and humor messages going it does one good to know what is going on where.
    I had a very strange vision this morning, disturbing indeed and it definitely is a sign that our youth is in big trouble and is going to bear severe consequences. I am currently passing the information on to all youth leagues in the country ,

  118. @ notaround / @ a-maize-ingly-corny @ Peace & all – I agree lets not respond / or reply to comments by MZU. The blog is intended for light humour lets all strive to keep it like that.

  119. White and proud says:

    Emeritus Arch Bishop of Cape Town is at it again and in the news for asking whites to pay a reparation tax or wealth tax because they all apparently benefitted from Apartheid.
    Along came his cheerleading constitutional expert and praise singer Piere de Vos from UCT and said, “The problem is, of course, that some white people – out of shame or ignorance or maybe a bit of both – do not want to admit that white South Africans almost all benefited from apartheid vis-à-vis black South Africans.”
    Almost All? Who were the ones that did not benefit? Again facts sucked out of each other’s thumbs.
    As I have proved in Opening Pandora’s Apartheid Box…everyone in South Africa benefitted form Apartheid, Black and White. Blacks had the highest literary standards and the highest life standard of all the blacks in Africa.
    Self hating liberal idiot, De Vos reckons, “If I had been born black and poor, I almost certainly would not have gone to University and I would almost certainly never have been a Law Professor at UCT (University of Cape Town), earning quite a nice salary, thank you.”
    I love the way he chooses his words. “Almost All”…”Almost Certainly”…As always both De Vos and The Arch fails to explain how it was at all possible for Tutu to study and become a teacher just like his father was.
    They also fail to explain how Nelson Mandela and countless other blacks managed to become lawyers during Apartheid South Africa a lawyer just like De Vos.
    They further failed to explain how the Apartheid government built ten Universities for blacks including Medunsa which is a unique medical university that turned out 200 highly qualified black doctors every year all at state costs, paid for by the white taxpayers. It also trained paramedics and nurses.
    Since 1970 the budget for black education was raised by about 30% per year every year. More than any other government department.
    In the period 1955 -1984 the amount of black school students increased 31 times from 35,000 to 1,096 000.
    65% of black South African children were at school compared to Egypt 64%, Nigeria 57%, Ghana52%, Tanzania50% and Ethiopia 29%.
    Amongst the adults of South Africa, 71% could read and write (80% between the ages 12 and 22). Compare this to Kenya 47%, Egypt 38%, Nigeria 34% and Mozambique at 26%.
    In South Africa, the whites built 15 new classrooms for blacks every working day, every year. At 40 children per class it meant space for an additional 600 black students every day!!!
    In 1985 there were 42,000 Blacks at 5 universities in South Africa, about the same amount at the universities of the homelands.
    In an article called “Die Afrikaner” 11 Feb 1987, the quarterly magazine called “Vox Africana Nr 29 4/87 stated that,
    South Africa had 4,8 million whites and 18,2 million blacks in 1987. The whites paid 77% of the taxes and the blacks only 15%…despite this…56% of the government budget was spent on blacks.
    During the time of Dr. Verwoerd. the living standards of Blacks were rising at 5,4% per year against that of the whites at 3,9% per year. In 1965 the economic growth of South Africa was the second highest in the world at 7,9%. The rate of inflation was a mere 2% per annum and the prime interest rate only 3% per annum. Domestic savings were so great that South Africa needed no foreign loans for normal economic expansion.
    Even Lord Deedes admitted, “White South Africa grew to become the economic giant of the continent, the other members of the Commonwealth virtually sank into poverty.”
    At the hight of Apartheid in 1978 Soweto had 115 football fields, 3 Rugby fields, 4 athletic tracks, 11 Cricket fields, 2 Golf courses, 47 Tennis courts, 7 swimming pools built to Olympic standards, 5 Bowling alleys, 81 Netball fields, 39 children play parks, and countless civic halls, movie houses and clubhouses.
    In addition to this, Soweto had 300 churches, 365 schools, 2 Technical Colleges, 8 clinics, 63 child day care centres, 11 Post Offices, and its own fruit and vegetable market.
    There were 2300 registered companies that belonged to black businessmen, about 1000 private taxi companies. 3% of the 50,000 vehicle owners in 1978 were Mercedes Benz owners. Soweto alone had more cars, taxis, schools, churches and sport facilities than most independent countries in Africa. The Blacks of South Africa had more private vehicles than the entire white population of the USSR at the time.
    Today Soweto has modern shopping malls like, Dobsonville Shopping Centre. In 2005 the Protea Gardens Mall opened. This was followed by the Baramall Shopping Centre and the Jabulani Shopping complex and the Maponya Mall. Experts say that Soweto has as much as 25% oversupply of retail space.
    The Canadian Medical Doctor, Dr Kenneth Walker wrote about Soweto, (I freely translate from “Verrat an Südafrika”, Klaus Vaque, 1987,pg 41)
    “In Soweto I saw many homes that costs about $100,000 (1978) and that had a BMW in the driveway. All houses are single storey. Many are recently painted. Many had flowerpots in the windows and lawn in the front. Only 2% were shacks. If I had the choice to live in Soweto or in the apartment dwellings or “Projects” of New York, Chicago, or Detroit where there is so much crime, then I would not hesitate for one moment and choose Soweto.”
    The biggest hospital in the world, Baragwanath with 3200 beds and at its peak almost 8000 staff had 23 operation theatres fitted out with the most modern medical equipment that existed in the world. Blacks were treated here, operated on…at full state costs to the white-taxpayers for unlimited periods. The budget of this hospital was and is higher than the yearly budget of most small member states of the United Nations.
    Next door to Baragwanath is the St. John’s Eye Clinic. The clinic is world famous for the treatment of Glaucoma, Cataracts, traumatic eye injuries and rare tropical diseases. All built and maintained by white taxpayer’s money for blacks.
    Baragwanath in 1978 employed 450 medical doctors in full-time service. It treated 112 000 in-patients and 1.62 million out-patients per year. The children and infant death rate with 34.8 per 1000 was lower than Harlem in New York.
    In 1982 alone, this hospital performed 898 heart operations of world quality.
    Ironically…90% of the blood donors for this hospital were whites, who donated blood free of charge, totally voluntarily…to save black lives. (Quoted from The Citizen, 2 April 1987).
    Whites have already given blacks their blood. What more do they want?
    De Vos calls for a “ones off reconstruction tax”….did he forget that 20,000 “Victims of Apartheid” were compensated R30,000 each back in the days of the TRC?
    Personally I think that Prof Pierre De Vos and Bishop Tutu should go get an education about the truth about Apartheid. They can start by reading my Pandora Series.
    Whites have given blacks the entire country for free. In tact. There is nothing more to give. Today blacks are destroying all the infrastructure that we paid for and built. Then still has the audacity to tell whites they should leave.
    What I want to know is who are going to compensate whites for all the schools, hospitals, dams, airports, harbours, railroads, etc that they have built? It is high time for blacks to start paying whites. Nothing is for free.
    Bishop Tutu and De Vos can start by selling their mansions and BMW’s and give it to the poor white fund of Solidarity “Helpende Hand”.

    ENOUGH SAID!!!

  120. @White and proud, that is quite a study that you have done there kudos to you. I was just thinking the same thing, who is going to re-imburse the whites for all the infrastructure etc. Everything was handed to them on a plate which has all gone down, down, down.

  121. Thks Zip for that info, Daffy it is the time now to go UP UP UP again. We are working on it in a political debate forum and are making good progress overcoming major barriers.

  122. @white and proud… what a thorough researched speech above. I must say you are the only one who has based his comment on well researced facts and not emotions however your research is a research of the 20th century and does not go as far as how whites came about in SA and how did they accumulate the wealth which they are currently reluctant to give back. You also did not mention why did they suddenly be the ruling class in foreign land. That is very much biased and am not surprised because you are white. As for Mandela and Tutu who became lawyers. We need to understand that most of the ANC leaders were from royal families and the only problem they joined the liberation struggle is because they could not advance because of their race. Therefore they were not genuine activists but activists with ulterior motives. I look forward to your response proud white guy.

  123. notaround says:

    @ white and proud – thank you for that info. Ps ……with ref to Mzu, just ignore, we all are !!! :-))

  124. So to you white people it doesn’t matter how you became the ruling class in foreign countries. ……..lol…… I rest my case with you people.

  125. notaround says:

    Eish, I wish that poor Mzu would get over it. Face it, we invented the wheel !!! Without us he would still live in a cage, with only paintings and story telling for amusement. LOL ps wonder how he got the education to play on a pc?? The money to pay for it. I know , he is BBEEE and is paid trillions for zip ?? *sigh*

  126. lol….. You invented a wheel. You forgot to be human beings and now you are wild animals. Always sucking other races blood.

  127. I think Tutu has lost his mind or going senile. Did he not want to retire from public life? Anyway besides this statement in today paper he says “why don’t Graduates do volunteer to help the country” – would this be the Graduates that have paid for their education & now need to pay off student loans? And now need to work!?

    Link : http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/graduates-can-help-heal-the-country-tutu-1.1124129

  128. Sorry – the students that have taken loans to pay for their education

  129. Jen I will send an email re a vision I had this morning about our youth!!

  130. notaround says:

    Malema’s brain is divided into 2 parts.
    Da left and da right.
    In da left, fokkol is right, and in da right fokkol is left!
    Now we sit with Dalema!

  131. notaround tks and no tks I almost choked on my toffee

  132. Hi Wonkie. Stop edditing what you don’t like.

  133. notaround says:

    @ Peace, a pleasure…………….pay back for the many times you nearly made me choke and snort my tea. LOL

  134. notaround says:

    @ Madoba – ???????? What you talking about??

  135. Dukie 743 says:

    Mzu.– When i said athat ALL smelly scumbag politicians are corrupt i meant those of ALL colours and origins. They are ALL inherently evil and dishonest the world over. Even the politicians of the DA are only out to enrich themselves at taxpayers expense. They are undoubtedly the highest paid group of people in the country yet not one of the parasites has volunteered to contribute a portion of their own salary to the starving people of Somalia. Neither has the tiresome pretender of the poor TUTU, for that matter. He keeps stumbling from subject to subject in order to stay in the news. Now he proposes a form of national service for the youth bur noticeably he never gets its own hands dirty. Tutu is ALL talk and absolutely no action. The man is a seemingly a mumbling idiot with possibly a touch of alzymers.

  136. Dukie 743 says:

    Mzu- That white welder will not find work in Britain because that country has targeted South Africans with South African passports and has stoped them finding work in the UK. This is because corrupt officials of the ANC government , working in Home Affairs has turned the South African passport into a wothless document throughout the world. They had actually been selling the passports to non South African foreigners who were possibly Al Qaeda terrorists.

  137. @ notaround – excellent!!

    @White and proud – well said & too true

  138. I am sick and fucking tired of the hatred and bile spewed out by fatboy’s tame monkey. It is time that Mzu realised that her dream of an all black Mzansi is only a pipe dream and it will cause bloodshed, chaos and poverty. Mzu too will be a victim of her foul hatred.
    It is amazing what a bit of tolerance, a pinch of peace and a lot of love can achieve.

  139. I’m sick and tired of you too Garth. Pretending everything is ok when you know exactly that whites are still oppressing blacks.

  140. Mzu all your assumption comes from the few you are associated with that WANTS believe that trash. If you were really unbiased and had the knowledge of a few million in our country of ALL RACES are busy working intensively to rectify all bull that is going around as well as trying to recover all the billions being tacked away by a few elite in the governing body. The majority of this group comes from black communities that are fedup with people like you spreading and provoking violence. If you want to remain being self destructive then do so by all means your mentality is appalling to all our dignified citizens of this country.

  141. Mzu> With an attitude like yours, no one would employ you in Britain. I’m actually surprised you have a job here in South Africa with a such a poisonous tongue and juvenile attitude.

  142. I recon lets just tax every white person, employed your not, make all whites register on a special tax list so we can keep track of all whites. then if they complain they can then go back to europe, if they dont like it, go to europe, else get jailed for tax evasion. Bring back the death penalty and only kill the white tax avoiders. problem solved.

  143. notaround says:

    @ Peace and Garth – Mzu is just trying to stir shit, for all we know he/she is a white extremist intent on stirring up racial hatred, have come across that before and have uncovered it. Ignore the twit and let the rest of us get on with rebuilding this country. If you read through all Mzu’s comments both from this thread and all others in the past, you will notice that often it is with a accent of illiteracy worthy of my garden helper and other times spelling and grammar is totally correct. The way the comments are written and the wording also differs tremendously as if there was a slip up in a make believe. At least we know Mzu has a well paid job with loads of time on her/his hands to sit on the Internet all day . Who paid for Mzu’s education??

  144. notaround says:

    oh I see Mzu now got a helper in Ngobe LOL, what next ??

  145. notaround says:

    I am getting tired of this one, has Wonkie not got a new one up yet?? It is Thursday Wonkie…………………… juuuuhuuuuu, where are you ??????????

  146. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Why is everyone reacting to Mzu? I thought we had agreed to ignore him/her.

    @ notaround – perhaps Mzu is the one doing the zip (for good pay) – and perhaps it’s a “white” zip – hence the vitriol and perhaps the time to spend on this site.

    As for Ngobe perhaps the avatar is telling Ngobe what to do.

  147. notaround says:

    @ a-maize-ingly-corny – eish I forgot LOL – was getting bored.

  148. notaround says:

    @ a-maize-ingly-corny – *chuckle* me thinks you might be right

  149. No one cares what whites opinion is tbh. your soon not going to be able to type on the internet because A) you wont have a job, and B) whatever you earn will be taxed to support all none-white africans. so enjoy your ignorance of the writing on the wall for now while it lasts. ask you european brothers and sisters for sympathy, because here in africa you will get none. hopefully another hitler will rise and take you all out, we are hopefull the middle east can generate one.

  150. Mzu is a perfect example of The Einstein Monkey Theory.
    If Einstein took a bunch of monkeys and lectured them fo a thousand years on his theory of relativity at the end of a thousand years they would still be monkeys.
    All the Wonkie subscribers must note that Mzu is one of Einstein’s monkeys, no matter what you say she will never understand and should she live to a thousand years she would still be a monkey.
    Now understand this comment is not intended to be racist just MZUist. She must just be ignored as she knows nothing.

  151. @ notaround – you made me laugh
    I also think Ngobo is another Mzu, should get the same treatment.

  152. @ white and Proud… since you are the only intelligent white here besides this twerps. This is a blatant flattering. If it was a thesis, for Masters or PHD it would have got a distention. Not for facts, it tells one side of the story. Again, the figures are being manipulated. The figures are not in proportion to the population of Africans. Whites who were relatively smaller in number exceeded Africans in the enjoyment of these benefits. Whites ,of cause, are still far ahead of us. Legislations in place to balance the equation must run for 100 years before we would have parity.

  153. notaround says:

    eish me thinks that Mzu and Ngobe is one and the same person LOL , just trying to stir shit, this is getting soooooooooo boring, think will go do my accounts so I can go to SARS and pay the VAT and the PAYE. *sigh*

  154. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Ngobe –
    Number 1. You obviously haven’t taken your avatar’s advice.
    Number 2. Your wish already came true – even to the mimic moustache – and though he tried very hard to do your wish, Zimbabwe still has enough “whites” to keep the country from TOTAL bankruptcy.
    Number 3. I can’t lose my job because I only have one – to try to educate your kind and to keep the other kind amused. Neither pays me anything so there is nothing to tax. And, by the way, my pension does not come from South Africa – so it cannot be taxed here anyway. Tough t*tt*es.

  155. your so bored that your still reading the blog, even though you said you wernt going to respond? yea..makes sense to me…typical white clutchplate mentality, just keep quiet and go pay your tax’s little boy. eish whites can like to be jean pant stupid as is. omg i cant wait for this new white tax!! i hopes it soon, so i can walk in the streets with my brothers and laugh and point at the next white none-person and say hey boetjie, where r u is pass ne? show me your tax pass boy.

  156. that’s y I hate politics

  157. @ Ngobe you are wasting your time with this uneducated white supremacists. They are used to debating with blacks who still look at them as masters and so when you speak the truth they threaten to ignore you. Not because they want to but because they have no intelligent fact to argue against you. The times of supremacy are over guys so get ussed to equal views…lol….. Apartheid is coming back don’t lose hope.

  158. @ a-maize-ingly-corny
    1) Don’t take none enity white boys advice. especially as you wont be in this country for much longer..
    2) pity the didnt kill all the white in Zim, no matter we will take those lessons and apply them in this country.
    3) Since were using number slike proper european elitists, you clearly cant count, remind me again how many none-white to white in this country? oh yes you seem to have forgotten, this isnt zim boet, last place in africa were whites think they have a say, you time is up on africa boeta, as the nice white lady on tv says, YOU are the weakest link, ty cheers have a nice day now..
    oh and you dont have a job? how sad, we must make amends, and ensure we tax you for breathing african air..there must be some other white tax were missing lol..no worries well find it..
    Speaking of pensions, i wonder how youll get it when we will change banking laws of incoming monies to Africa?? your so funny boet…

  159. Glad the humor is coming forward again. I read one response (admit I broke the rule) just to check if the quotation LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR LIKE YOURSELF or if even just the word love appeared, but being disappointed I better stick to the rule to avoid another disappointment

  160. @Peace… Love your black Brother Like yourself, Love all none whites, except not indians, or mixed bread half white bread boy coloured, not chinese, in fact any race of colour not in africa prior to 2011 years ago cannot be loved, but the rest of us true blood africans get much love boet.

  161. White and proud says:

    Amazing how they sometimes can see the light!

    I quote (copy paste) “Whites ,of cause, are still far ahead of us.”

    “Legislations in place to balance the equation must run for 100 years before we would have parity.”

    Make that 100 to the power of 100 – A spade is a spade is a spade, it can NEVER be a rose.

  162. I like your mentality White and proud. You are a true reflection of white people uncensored just like the Oslo bomber. A spade must be a spade and I agree fully with you. We both need to demystify this myth that blacks and whites can co-exist. WHites have proven so all these years and this twerps here speak of peace. Where have you seen peace when there are two opposite races who are against each other. The next wave of black struggle is coming soon.

  163. white and deluded – desist with your imbecilic, delusional ramblings that purport to represent the views of “white” South Africans. You are nothing but a vile, bigoted little cretin wallowing in the fawning adulation of sycophantic, underclass troglodytes. Frankly, that there are vermin with equal or less intelligence posting on here is alarming… that they support your simian views is understandable.

  164. I read this article today – Moeletsi Mbeki, would get my seal of approval what he says makes sense – education & opportunities

    South Africa does not need “another Mandela”, according to political analyst and author Moeletsi Mbeki.
    Speaking at a Cape Times discussion around his newly launched book, Advocates for Change, How to Overcome Africa’s Challenges, in Cape Town On Wednesday, Mbeki said there was a new trend in African politics in which young people had moved far ahead of their older counterparts and were charting their own path.
    Citing Egypt as an example, Mbeki said former leader Hosni Mubarak’s regime was brought down by young people. He said the same trend was being witnessed in Libya.
    He said young people in Egypt were putting together a new Bill of Rights that would ensure all religions and heritages lived in harmony.
    “Young people in Africa have moved so far ahead of the old leadership running African countries. For instance, in Libya, young people have had enough of Gaddafi. We are entering a new age in the world and that has arrived in South Africa. The old powerful leaders are not needed. We needed the Mandelas, but now we don’t need another Mandela,” Mbeki said.
    He said the “breadth” of leadership in South Africa was much broader than just the older generation.
    “Is this threatening to old politicians? The answer is yes,” Mbeki said.
    Mbeki said the book was a follow-up to the one he wrote about two years ago called Architects of Poverty, which looked at problems affecting South Africa and other African countries.
    “Advocates for Change is a follow-up to that and focuses on solutions,” he said.
    Mbeki said it was ironic that some African leaders had championed the cause of finding African solutions for African problems, but still had Western multinational companies as advisers, such as McKinsey and KPMG.
    “They hire (these companies) to come and find solutions for Africa,” Mbeki said.
    Mbeki touched on a number of topics during his talk including nationalisation, BEE and education.
    He said globalisation, education, entrepreneurship and health were some of the problems hindering Africa’s development and needed urgent attention. He also called for the elimination of “racial preferences” in employment.
    Mbeki said racial preferences under National Party rule had “nearly brought the country to civil war”.
    “This is not the solution for South Africa. It’s a disincentive to black South Africans,” Mbeki said.
    He also called for a greater involvement of churches in education.
    “Life expectancy is shrinking and we’re losing huge amounts of skills. And we have to raise science, maths and managerial skills in the system – there is no other way. I also appeal to churches to revisit their role of the 19th and 20th century with the schools they developed. We need more private sector schools,” Mbeki said.
    On the wealth tax for rich white South Africans punted by Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Mbeki said this was not the solution for the country.
    “Wealth redistribution doesn’t solve problems. What solves problems is raising skills and creating better opportunities,” Mbeki said.
    babalo.ndenze@inl.co.za – Cape Times

  165. A Good idea, sounds brilliant, only..we just want all whites to leave Africa and we dont care how you do it..real simple really, and if that drops us back into grass roots level so be it. Whites just don’t seem to get it. how more simplified must we make it?

  166. Ngobe this is a democratic country everyone is Equal blacks aren’t supreme you should go and read the law of South Africa o yeah you just changed it to your needs. It is because of the blacks that South Africa is in the condition it is. I am sure that you don’t have a job either you live of the money you stole from a white man who actually worked for it you just assume that if you are black you should get everything. I have some news for you, you don’t. During the apartheit the whites had to work for what they have today not like the blacks today who just steels what they want you know steeling, murder rape and corruption is a crime and a sin.

  167. Unknown you’re just crazy. Please leave thinking to those who can do it because stupid people like actually pollute such discussions. You do not belong in SA, how many freakin times must you be told. White poeple are aliens in Africa because we do not have traces of albinoes in the African kingdom. Flush yourself in the toilet or something. You whites make me wanna puke. Bloody reptiles.

  168. I have news for you unkown to scared to write his name, your in Africa, outnumbered and outvoted. kicked out of all previous african countries. SA is your last stand. white dont stand a chance, and added bonus i repeat myself, we dont care what your opinion is. In this democracy that you mention, who wins elections? why that would be our black brothers, so who has majority? why again our black brothers..any vote or referendum, who will win it? why yes you guessed it, our black brothers. you white time is over, start packing, because frankly we dont give a damn. eventually with our BEEE laws, white tax, and more we will either force you all to relocate or finally decide to pick up your apartheid, fat, useless lazy white arms up in a war, that your frankly not used to fighting on a physical level, unlike us that it is the air we breathe.

    (remaining content deleted by moderators – inappropriate)

  169. hahahahahahahaahhahaha Ngobe.

  170. Ngobe I really don’t give a dam what you think I know that you make promises for every election and how many of that promises are actually fullfild NONE you only win through corruption giving your own brothers false hope. I have nothing against blacks just the lazy whorthless asholes some of my best frinds are black and we respect each other not like you do

  171. nevermind says:

    just popped in to say my bit, but can see this has turned into a nasty racial mud slinging match, so popping out again. Sad to see that as per usual the whole point has been lost . Where is the report button ?? There surely is a couple of highly inappropriate comments here.

  172. Mzu I know you are stupid I just like to show that to every one. You have nothing and never will have. At least you had a job, house and education in the apartheid now you have nothing and by the way what about the whites born after 94 they have nothing to do with it and did not benifit from it as well

  173. Mzu is only 24 years old, so she was born in 1987, therefore never experience apartheid

  174. Notaround says:

    @ Jen – just got back from tax man, done my duty like a good citizen, I see you guys had some “fun” while I was gone?

    Not nice. We are supposed to play nicely together.

    Like your Moeletsi letter, he has some sense.

    re: Mzu, how on earth do you know that? My youngest are that age and they would never speak to anyone like that. They both went to University, I took out a loan to pay for it and they have several lovely educated friends of all colours and nationalities. An atrocity that someone so young is so anger and bitter and horrible, really makes me think the person is made up just to stir shit for sure. No one could really be like that ???

  175. Notaround you were notaround when the fun was on.

  176. WHoever said little crackers did not benefit from apartheid is telling a blatant lie. They are beneficiaries and if we don’t drive you to the sea their children and grandchildren will benefit just like you did from your forefathers.

  177. By the way I’m man, not a she as you crackers say.

  178. notaround says:

    @ Peace – hehe, very funny, seems like I missed nothing but a young self important little black pip squeek, who should go back to school shooting his mouth off like an idiot as per usual.

  179. Unknown and the rest, which par tof we dont give damn about white and your opinions? lol your writting to me as if you actually think i actually care? (deleted by moderators – inappropriate) are you marching for you rights? do you organise sits in? (none violent demonstrations) go google it ignoramous. You whites have gotten lazy, whatdo you think? a strong worded email with 10000 white names pettition is going to do? nothing, except provide us with a list of people we know we can target first lol no wait, your going to write a very huffy letter on a blog that maybe 500 people read? oh dear no please dont. please everyone knows whites have no backbone to put their thoughts of unfairness into action. grow up and smell the lovely red blood tinted roses, but be carefull they prick and make you bleed, no wait, youll prob write on facebook how unfair it all is, and all your european friends will “like” it. hahaha

  180. @ Notaround – I asked the question a few weeks or so back (because I am nosey!) and also of what you have stated and received a reply. Moeletsi does make a lot of sense, but then I question if he was to have some power would he change his tune?

    @ Peace – fun fun!!

    Off now to start my 2nd shift

  181. nevermind says:

    Ngobe has a point in a way. We do not march or throw bricks or go on strike , because we feel we are too civilised for that. Maybe the Nats had a point, I just wonder then why they did not just throw a bomb into Soweto and the other locations or put a tablet in the water to sterilise all black men and women?? Because we are too civilised?? So here is the deal, let us all pack up our stuff , our children and educated skills and go back to Europe or wherever we came from. I will use the scorched earth policy though, no way is anyone going to have what I worked like a slave for for years, for free !!
    Thank the good lord only a small majority thinks like these 2 idiots, Mzu and Ngobe, the first thing that would happen is that Nato would come bombing them out and arresting them all !
    Wake up and smell the roses !! We are all South Africans and we cannot live without each other. You will be back living in a hut, wearing a loincloth like the rest of Africa that ousted the white man.
    Goodbye !

  182. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Mzu – a man – that makes the zip work even more kinky !!!!!

  183. PM I am sure this forum has standard of conditions for comments, Maybe the moderator should review some of them and delete it before network notifications.

  184. Notaround says:

    @ Jen – catch you tomorrow if Wonkie has something else for us ?
    @ Peace – what I thought too
    @ Ngobe – If I was going to toy toy I would loose my job, only blacks are allowed to toy toy, strike and march !!

  185. You think you are supreme. I love how foolish you crackers are.

  186. the point being white dont stand up for themselves and then have the gall to stand on the side and bitch and moan when blacks do? yes very civilised and all that, qhuite so old chap, but sadly this isnt high tea and all that were talking about. @nevermind, come on man you know why you whites rolled over to get your belly tickled like the good pets you are..no backbone, plus you also know if you threw a couple bombs into soweto etc, the rest of africa would slit your throat in your sleep..lol ai you white people, so full of hot gas, i think i should take my pigsticker and stab your little jello white grub stomache and let some of that smelly air out..

  187. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    And these are the people Father Des wants us to support with a new tax !!!!!

  188. Notaround says:

    @ a-maize-ingly-corny – LOL – no way will any of us give one more cent !! Wealth tax is one thing, but all wealthy should pay then and how do you define wealth ?? To the squatter that live in a camp with no water or electricity and no job, my son with an old car and a low paid job living at home would look wealthy! What is the average salary? Are we talking about people with more than one home, more than one car, salary over R 100 000.00 per month ?? There is extreme wealth in this country, all colours and races and extreme poverty too, mainly in black and coloured areas, but we have seen many very poor whites too, and white squatter camps too. Now who will benefit from this , what are they going to use the money for. They have already squandered billions and lost trillions and their people are suffering as never before. It is atrocious !

  189. @notaround, your still missing the point, why does your white son have a job ffs? it should go to a black..see thats were your all thinking u have actually something to complain about lol, so so funny. the correct version here is: why do white even still have jobs? no worries BEEE rates will change next year, they will be 80% black owned, then the year after 90% ..i am certain you see the trend right? lol..so funny to think anyone will listen anymore to a minority group in a majority black country lol

  190. The policies of governing structures will follow, I am just forwarding their basic principles and is still busy with the rest. I have to work on memory as there were no computers those days and the handwritten documents were destroyed a few years ago by fire . The irony of this is that they were regarded as idiotic imbeciles and the time has proofed that they were the idiots.

    THE BASIS ON WHICH THE PATRIOTS WERE FORMED

    This group was formed in South Africa during the agonizing political time in the mid 1940’s
    Any person was welcome and accepted to join regardless of race or religion but on agreement of promoting and living the principles.

    Principles where based on Biblical commands by the Savior of all
    JESUS CHRIST.

    Who and what is our ENEMY he is the ruler of darkness that causes hate, persecution, diversity, racism, greed, materialism, selfishness, violence, theft, destruction, intolerance, oppression , wars, murder and fear.

    PRINCIPLES

    The WORD calls us to PROMOTE and LIVE BY:, Love, Peace, Prosperity and Equality for all.
    Everybody has a GOD given talent that they excel in , to contribute to a meaningful purpose in our society.

    Freedom of choice, religion and culture as nobody is above anybody else.

    The Law of Life is: – LOVE CONQUERS ALL

    Love promotes peace,
    Love is unselective
    Love is tolerant
    Love is unselfish
    Love is giving oneself to serve others.
    Love sees the good in everybody
    Love is compassionate
    Love is an attitude of gratitude
    Love uplifts the downtrodden
    Love is respectful
    Love is humbleness
    Love is self sacrifice.

    LOVE IS REAL ETERNAL LIFE

  191. Notaround says:

    @ Nogobe – no you are the stupid one – my son went to College (which I paid for with a loan) and got a degree A+ in IT Technician, as he could not get a job, the wrong colour, he joined a franchise company, which I paid for with another loan and is now working his butt off to build his company up so he can employ more people. He works all hours of the day and do not sit whining expecting somebody to hand it to him on a plate, unlike you.

    @ Peace – (deleted by moderators – inappropriate)

  192. Peace please save your pseudo caring act. (deleted by moderators – inappropriate)

  193. Ngobe well you must have benefited from apartheid. I don’t own a million rand house, 1,2 million rand car, R25000 watch suits of a million each more house to the value of approx 10m I don’t even have a house or car or cloths worth more than R500

  194. I am the most grateful person in this country and my joy has just gone for a leap knowing that you are not god or a god as only GOD judges our hearts and no human. The second joy non of my predecessors have ever committed a murder or a crime . They in turn were persecuted and insulted for not taking any part in any act of war or violence. We surely have a clean record that nobody can take away from us. We the latest descendants still keep their principles and know that with GOD we are in the majority to get to us they have to pass HIM first.

  195. @notaround @ unkown, your still not getting it, we dont care…his white, he must resign so a black can get his job, he has a car? or wons anything he must give it over, and then leave the country, before we slit his neck so he can donate his last blood for our celebration beer. we dont care if were going to live in mud huts. we just dont care…lol your arguing with someone who doesnt give a flying toss what any white person says or rants about or feels in his wimpy ass tone of voice whinning about unfairness. and the wealth is being slowly redistributed, so what if juju has a 8 billion rand house? its not a white house, so i am happy. lol

  196. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    No – the White House has a DECENT black man living in it

  197. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Oops – I forgot – our racists say he’s not black enough !!!!!

  198. @Ngobe – so funny about juju house then how come it is built in a predominately “white” up market suburb?

  199. Ngobe, you may be right about not caring if you live in a mud hut but declaring that you want to slit aneck is hate speech which is against the law as promulgated by the ANC. Careful what you ask for you may just get it. Many whites could leave tomorrow, but why should they and many of us like living here. I cannot understand why more than a thousand blacks risk their lives daily on overcrowded leaky boats to illegally migrate to Europe where they can sell sunglasses and bags on the streets rather than live in a mud hut. Get real, most of those emigres live in places where all the whites left. I notice that Fatboy did not visit an African country when he went on his last holiday, he went to Italy. (maybe he is changing chicken for pasta). Learn to love your fellow humans because black or white we are all the same species. (except for possibly Mzu)

  200. Jen I am posting a comment of a US forum I joined with our friends there , as I mentioned the american citizens are also waking up.
    I believe we need a moratorium to help people who are already delinquent or who have received a foreclosure notice,” said Clarke. “This would stabilize the real estate market in Michigan by keeping homes occupied for rates people can afford. It’s not just the homeowners that need the protection, but their neighbors as well, so they can keep the value of their property instead of living in a neighborhood with abandoned and stripped houses that the We are mobilizing hundreds of residents from throughout the state,” said Azikiwe. “The current situation in Michigan warrants the declaration of a state of emergency requiring immediate action and the passage of S.B. 1306. Strong pressure from the people is necessary to counteract the influence of the banks and the mortgage companies banks can’t even sell.

  201. Peace-Interesting

  202. @ Peace I quote ” I am the most grateful person in this country”…….lol.. That’s so ambitious for an ungrateful reptilian like you.

  203. Thank you all for the comments and complaints. As regular readers will know Wonkie offers a rather free reign in the commentary. There are a few exceptions to this however and some of the complaints Wonkie received fall in this category this week.

    While Wonkie appreciates that the discussion is heated, please refrain from making personal attacks. Talking about how you won’t feel anything slicing your knife into someone of another race, or referring to an entire community as savages ruled by satan, for example, are opinions that don’t add value to the conversation AT ALL. While Wonkie defends your rights to have these opinions, please keep these to yourself.

    If anything, the commentary here shows there is clearly a racially driven gap between an equitable way forward and whether there even needs to be an equitable way forward. Perhaps a constructive next step would be for each person holding a viewpoint to ATTEMPT to appreciate where the other side is coming from. Expand your thinking.

  204. Apartheid: you made black people persona non grata:
    1. an unacceptable or unwelcome person
    2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a diplomatic or consular officer who is not acceptable to the government or sovereign to whom he or she is accredited

    How do you think that feels, to be made a none enitity, not important, margenelised, to tell your children they might as well cut their own necks because there is no future for them. But now, now suddenly we are a people again, with a vote, we count? how do you think people like that will react? Deep DEEP hatred for the suppressors that made you a nothing? unjustified reactions? definetly. I am sorry, you honestly expected us to go, your sorry? oh thats ok, your forgiven? for making us nothing, worthless, less than scum, kaffirs-none persons of belief, as if dont have God’s, as if we are Godless, meanwhile we have more God’s than your one. and now you want us, the angry, previously suppressed to get on our knees and thank you for releasing us from purgotry, hell? You are moaning because of the way react? to finaly have a voice to react with? Your kidding right? Of course i hate you, of course i want you dead? Of course iwant everything, how can you honestly expect me not to???

  205. PM you should not use one example when you try to make your point because it shows that you are biased to one side in the arguement. I understand most people in this blog are white so if you risk rebuking them your blog would suffer but the role of a journalist is to inform and not choose sides. I respect what you say but what circumstances you might find yourself in you must at all times try and be neutral.

    • @Mzu – firstly, this is an opinion piece – not the news. Secondly, if you read Wonkie’s previous comment carefully, you will notice that there are in fact, two examples, not one.

      The point is to focus the communication on a viewpoint and expressing how you arrived at that viewpoint. Name-calling, threats of violence, etc detracts from that and gets Wonkie receiving endless complaints from reptiles and other species mentioned.

  206. Brett Marshall says:

    @MZU

    I cant make up my mind whether you are a white radical posing as a black extremist, a wanabe intellectual posing as a reasonable and reasoning person, an escapee from a asylum for the mentally disabled, or just a black dude with way too much time on his hands. Get a life fella, and stop wallowing in self pity and hatred.

  207. @ Brett Marshall

    Is that any of your business? You should stick your nose where it needs be, your master status has been lost remember.

  208. The demise of apartheid was a rare historical occurrence inasmuch as there are only three times in history where a government in power willingly handed over that power to their enemies for the good of the people. In 80BC the Roman Dictator Sulla restored the balance of power between the Senate and the populace and stunned the Roman World ) by resigning the dictatorship and restoring normal constitutional government. The Second was the restoration of the Meiji a chain of events that restored imperial rule to Japan in 1868. After the shogun dictator Tokugawa handed over power to the former Royal Family.leading to enormous changes in the political and social structure that allowed for the modernisation of Japan. The third was when FW de Klerk made changes that brought about the end of apartheid.
    The most significant factor in the demise of the previous regime was the role of Nelson Mandela who preached non racialism, peace and unity. Why now are some people opposing those views. Do many of our fellow countrymen (and women) fail to understand.

  209. @ Ngobe yes I tend to agree you with you somewhat. To feel to be made a none enitity, not important, is wicked and horrendous. APARTHEID was so wrong. We all know that

    My early years I was at school in the UK. I went to school with blacks, whites & Indians. When I came to SA I did not know or understand why they were different rules for different people of colour that was not normal for me.

    My husband when he left school had to national service, these young “white” lads did so as they knew no different. Today they know it was a waste of time and it was not right,THEY KNEW NO DIFFERENT. Our generation from mid thirties to mid fifties know that it was not right. (Apartheid) so I don’t see how we can be continually blamed for the wrong of the past.
    On another note you say that “notaround” son should not have a job, re-read his post again. He does not have a job he had to start his own company to earn an income. He is working for himself. Some people have to start their own companies to make money, is that wrong? That’s moving forwards and keeping up with the times.

  210. @Garth, what YOU fail to understand is my parents arrested for no other reason because they where black, tortured and murdered, yes its murder, including my mom, murdered by your white party. imagine i go arrest your parents for no other reason because they are white because the anc is in power now, and i kill them in their cells and theirs fuckall you can do about it. no imagine the hate, that burns, and ferments for years. and years and just builds and boils…for years. you whites in the country preach love and bortherly love, where were you or your parents when i needed it when my parents and friends and family was MURDERED. fuck you, you have no idea how it feels as hole. dont sit theire all smug and tell me how the fuck i must feel, and feel the love and bullshit. you wont ever walk a mile in my shoes ever..unless we make you walk in them. so fuck right off telling me i must forgive and forget, as long as i live, i will never ever forgot your white people murdered my parents and sat smugly sipping their tea afterwards. you call us animals? really after declaring us none people and murdering us for stand up to our human rights and conditions? i will never forgive you for murdering my parents, friends and family..never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  211. Brett Marshall says:

    @Mzu

    No, its none of my business, just wondering about your motivation. Which, since you choose to place your opinion in the public domain so prolifically, is my right.

    @Garth

    Yes but you have missed one other important point. The end of apartheid was the ONLY time in history that a people have surrendered their rights to the majority. The other two examples of abdication were about dictators, in SA we held a referendum and the electorate voted for democracy.

  212. I get your point but still if this is an opinion piece so are the views. I think this space is ok for people to speak their minds out. I agree though on the view of people threatening the others but we have to believe it’s anger as well. Blacks are angry at the current situation so as the whites who are now not in control after centuries of being the only ones with a voice in the society. We should always expect such reactions from people when such issues aare debated given the history of these races.

  213. @PM this will be my last post, so dont worry about me calling people names. I give up explaining how it feels, the anger , the repressed anger hurt, depression. sadly you people will never understand. My heart bleeds for me, my parents, my lost friends and family, the future of this country and this world. We will not survive this millenium. Thank you, i had hoped i could make see what we went through, why we still wake up with nightmares, and why we demand things.. but clearly talking here to ignorant people is a wasted excercise. I thought if i show you my years of repressed anger it might make you wake up, no i just see everyone is just delusional. so sorry ne.

  214. @Garth you speak as if the white regime just handed power to the natives. You should just check at how the SA society is structured and tell me if there is any difference between the apartheid regime and the pseudo democratic regime. Luckily for the whites the created for themselves a puppet in Mandela who made sure all the wealth your forefathers stole remains. Remember the struggle was not a struggle so we can be accepted by foreigners in our own home but to do away with the reptiles who had been controlling us for centuries and that wasn’t achieved. The struggle continues.

  215. Notaround says:

    @ PM and all others – I sincerely apologise for my inappropriate remark, it was a direct reference to: ” Who and what is our ENEMY he is the ruler of darkness that causes hate, persecution, diversity, racism, greed, materialism, selfishness, violence, theft, destruction, intolerance, oppression , wars, murder and fear.” we all know who the ruler of darkness is . When some persons here start promoting this, they are surely not civilised people which is how the other, inappropriate remark came about. The people who will soon be back in loincloths living in huts if they carry on with this hatred and destruction.

  216. Andre Piek says:

    @Ngobe – I sincerely hope that will not be your last post. You are mostly right – I do not believe I can ever fully appreciate what the black people of South Africa has experienced – but I know it was bad and I do acknowledge that. I also understand what you mean when you say you feel that is not enough.

    Do you really believe that making the whites suffer badly is the best way forward for the country? What can the whites do now to make the situation better? I would be interested to hear your views. I was born here, this is also my home now so telling me to go away is not going to happen. How do you believe we can make things right?

  217. Notaround says:

    @ Andre Piek – you are totally right. None of us can appreciate or understand what the black people went through. We were kept in blissful ignorance by the government, I arrived here in 1975 , there was not even television. I was appalled and surprised by what was going on. As a young newly qualified nursing sister I had no idea what to expect and many times nearly went “back home” in despair. However I decided to stay and work to bring about change from within doing my little bit here and there, staying under the radar of the government as I could have been deported Persona Non Grata.
    By now after 15 years of independence my patience is wearing very thin, with the self pity and chip on shoulder by so many young blacks.

    @ Ngobe: My heart goes out to you and I know, because you have said so, you do not care what I think or feel, but you must know that , I as a person, did not do those atrocities committed against your family and I can understand your anger and hatred. I was attacked in my home many years ago by 2 young angry black men who wanted my money and my life. I was very lucky to survive the attack, it did not make me hate every black person I meet though, as that would be pointless. I believe in the good in all people regardless of race or creed, until proved otherwise.

    As Andre said: He is not going anywhere, neither am I . This is my home, my children are born here and has as much right as you have to live here. Have you got any solution besides murdering every white person you see??

  218. We cannot make things right with you still around Andre……

  219. Mzu. Have a psychological evaluation and publish the results here. From a reputable psyhcologist of course. Whitey’s quit the N’angas centuries ago.

  220. I have conducted a psychiatric review of the contents of Mzu’ spiteful bile and can only conclude that she is either Fatboy’s sister or she is stark raving mad, or both.

  221. Garth it rather seems that the brain there has been replace with a recorder on repeat , should have a dna analysis done.

  222. Bigtshaka says:

    Look a white person will never understand the way us black people suffer and have always suffered….most whites are oblivious to this because this is how they understand black people to be….sufferers,selling items at street corners,begging,living in shanty towns,working for peanuts…they really have no idea.So when blacks call for an equalisation whites don’t jump up and say you know what we did this (our forefathers) and lets make reparations.So what they then say is this is not good reconciliation…two wrongs don’t make a right…sitting in their plush homes earned from black sweat.I doubt whites will agree hence plan B “do the MUGABE” on them they all understand this method…coz they used it too and as far as USA,UK all cry foul when a black has the guts to take from a white….Now taxing would only work if we black people agree that we all forgive each other after that “equalisation” and no more racism…but will that really happen?NO so forget taxing if it will not lead to reconciliation.A referendum should be held with that as the result – reconciliation.If not i personally believe blacks must also take and we have equalisation later coz they’ll never just give…and do we really just want hand-outs,charity?Lets also TAKE!!

  223. Bigtshaka. -Your comment is strange when seen in the context where these leaders have been overthrown, African leaders such as Gaddafi and their families, have been living in sheer luxury and opulence. The same appled in Uganda when Amin was overthrown and the Mugabe’s in Zinbabwe seem to believe that the state coffers are for their own bank account. Our own leaders are the highest paid group in the world and are looting the coffers of the state. Motlanthe gave R300 million of SA taxpayers money to Zimbabwe and it disappeared into Graceless Mugabe’s bank account. Zuma has just given billions of rands to Mswati in Swaziland when millions of his own people are starving. This ANC government is the most corrupt in the history of South Africa and Zuma, a black leader, is the head of that government.

  224. I might not agree that Zuma is the most corrupt leader during apartheid we have no information about all the corrupt deals done by the white government to bust sanctions and get arms into South Africa….and many other corrupt and inhuman things happened.I am sure where Zuma may have done one or two things these chaps went very big.Corporations like Anglo,De Beers have milked black sweat for years and they were the architects of Apartheid.I assure you palms were greased right there.I assure you the government transfered a lot of money into offshore principalities some came back with the amensty on funds..but most never came back.So a tax is appropriate but i believe the payment for that tax to us blacks should be in the form of free education,free university,bbbee status and job guarantees for a period of time to address the imbalances.I don’t believe cash should be given to blacks per se.Why i say we must take is because i know whites and how they think.I went to Private schools with them in Zim and University in SA.They all regard us as trash ok maybe unfair to say all BUT most.Blacks forgive but imagine if apartheid was done by blacks and the whites were black…So for whites to not see the point of a need for addressing years of abuse of races blacks,indians,coloured by the whites is completely arrogant and its this attitude that infuriates me…and makes me want to take a knive and twist it in them.As a christian though i am trying like many blacks to forgive and forget and move on…but when people are so arrogant you want to just teach these people that we aren’t stupid.So no i don’t prescribe to corrupt black leaders but man some of them have taught these whities a thing or two and that unfortunately feels good sometimes (not the corruption) but you know a man standing up for years of oppression of our forefathers does have a feel good factor….its true.But replace the revenge with some address i am sure that can heal wounds….

  225. By descent i am related to the Swazi Royal family but i know that this represents one of the last true royal african families and if we must help lets help.I don’t prescribe to some of the excesses though and if i was able to, would advise the Royal family to set up businesses eg mines and use dividends etc to finance the royal family and have a moderate tax acceptable to Swazis.So i see Zuma doing this with this in mind.Zuma needs support if not Malema may take over and well i might want sensible address but he may just go overboard.

  226. Bigtshaka. –At least Malema is facing his accusers. Unlike the wily, rotund machine gunning whiner Zuma who did not have the manly courage to face the courts to answer hundreds of corruption charges he is alleged to have committed. During his rape trial, Zuma failed to condenm the way his rape accuser was hounded out of South Africa by ANC thugs. It is he that initiated the way that ANC are demonstrating these days. He failed to speak up when Malema stated that ALL whites are criminals. Presumably the Norweigians are also criminals because they are mainly white. Zuma is a complete embarrassment to South Africa. Zuma only looks after Zuma. His friend Cele is not disciplined for corruption and neither are his friends who use taxpayers money to visit their druggie girlfriend in prison overseas.

  227. Unbelievable… It is all a making money story… Why go through all the admin by selling farms so black people can be in position of land, if black people selling the land back to white people.. WHY NOT JUST OFFER MONEY TO THE BLACK PEOPLE THEN.. It will be much cheaper and less frustrating….
    Black farmers have resold nearly 30% of the white farmland bought for them by the government, often selling back to the previous white owners, Land Reform Minister Gugile Nkwinti said on Wednesday.

  228. @ Peace – I listened to that on the radio this morning. I can’t believe it either. Is because they the Black farmers do not know who to run the farms successfully? (Lack of skills) Or laziness? Then they should STOP talking about land distribution ’cause its clearly not going to work.

  229. The reason is this if i gave you a farm to compensate for your oppression etc you still need working capital to run the farm not so just like any white person would need working capital.Whats been happening in Zim is a guy gets the farm one doesn’t have the business training and two may have never run even a tuckshop.But he wants to be a farmer.What in my opinion should happen is guys should have an agreed minimum training,and some in business or farm management as prerequisites (who funds the training…i dunno tax the whites!!joke)…but the black guy getting the farm doesn’t hate the white guy coz look the white guy ran the farm before so what is happening the two are coming together and working in harmony.Later the whites go to CFU and report that these blackies don’t know how to run the farm etc of course they don’t.The same will happen in SA us blacks mwho want farms must start training in farm management now!!Look in the first place before the farms were taken had the whites approached govt and said we want to accomodate and train blacks to farm and we will give half of our farms (coz usually only a third is used by the farmers in any case)to the blacks there would not have been any “forced” farm occupations.But as i said before the white man will never share what he stole in the first place.So yes for at least a generation going forward there could be chaos…blacks wanting to farm but not having all the skills and after that a generation is coming that will know…just as when whites started farming its not like they just started producing bumper harvests and automatically had the knowhow.We must get organised…and in SA start getting organised now.To the whites those who start the initiative of co-opting and helping the blacks will survive the tornado thats coming – blacks want redress and they want some land thats a fact live with it plan for it.The outcome will be determined by whether you share the wealth or not.

  230. The majority in our country is agains capitalism and here is a simple easy solution.: Burn all the money in our country and there’s nothing left to fight or cry about.

  231. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Bigtshaka. I have to agree with much of what you say. If you continually give a daily fish to a hungry man he will never learn to fish but if you teach a hungry man to fish he will never be hungry again. The basic answer lies in education and training.
    Do you remember that a few years ago some of the wine farmers in the Western Cape GAVE shares in their farms and wineries to their employees who thus became partners with a share of the profits which came from the farm and winery. The ‘former employees’ – now shareholders – had experience on the farm and started to take more responsibility, ‘elected’ leaders to make up a new management structure and essentially “hired and fired” within the community to get the best people doing the jobs they were best at. Since those early reports we hear nothing. Why is this? Because good news is not news – BAD news is what sells papers and draws television cameras.
    Add the fact that the initiative was taken by ‘WHITE’ farmers – in a DA stronghold nogal – and do you wonder why the ANC government is keeping a low profile and not encouraging this kind of ‘re-distribution’?
    If the government paid ‘white’ farmers for shares in their proerty and gave those shares to the farm workers, surely their own experience and background would be a major starting point in running a successful farming enterprise. Add to that the fact that the ‘employees’ would now be sharers in land ownership and the ‘re-distribution’ portion becomes moot as the farm now becomes company property and, in most cases, the company will be BBBEE compliant. Probably more so than many of the so-called BBBEE companies listed on the JSE.

  232. @ a-maize-ingly-corny – totally makes sense to me as well and yes there should be more sharing. The problem is not the white man’s unwillingness to share as has been seen with all large white companies, who have given shares to their employees as incentives. The problem lies with the government who basically do not give a shit about their people, only their own families and cohorts, which was and is the same old problem in Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa. “as long as I am okay, Jack” is the mentality they have and when it goes wrong, blame the white supremist imperialist and kill them all, when in the first place they wanted to help. You do not help a beggar by giving him R 5 at the robot, you help him if you teach him a craft whereby he can earn money himself, have pride in himself and further himself. That is the principle we have tried for years, to no avail with most as it is easier to put out your hand or otherwise just take !!!

  233. Bigtshaka, it is obvious that you are related to the Swazi Royal Family, who steal from their subjects, ban all political parties, ban the unions, borrow money from South Africa, which is unlikely to be repaid. And walk around like arrogant baboons lording it over the Swazi people. Tell me, where did Mswati go to school and what did the Swazis do towards the struggle against apartheid.

  234. @Notaround and @a-maize-ingly-corny if we can continue discussing like this i am sure Africa will have a chance…we have so much potential together black and white.Colonialism is a reallity,the blacks suffering under oppression is a reality,injustices are a reality, if we work on redressing as you say farmers sharing with their workers…training etc very quickly there will be an empowered black class within the farms and bitterness towards white farmers will wane…similarly if companies do much the same we will overcome years of oppression and make a better place for our kids and descendants to live.

  235. Swaziland helped the struggle and look up the history.How much did Price William’s wedding…just a wedding cost the British subjects?Royalty is Royalty.In Africa we are so colonialised that its not acceptable…but i bet you watched a snippet of the”Royal Wedding”.And yes i am related.But thats not the point is it….your point is a Swazi King is not entitled to continue his traditions but a British Monarchy is coz surely they take much more from their subjects…

  236. I think we South Africans have the tendency of blaming the past for our failure to deal with corruption,failing government etc.I understand Desmond Tutu’s desperation,instead of rescuing the country’s money on dealing with corrupt government officials and tenderpreneurs fat cats he said what he said.He severely verbally attacked Zuma prevously,only to find out he will become president,and dont want to play the same game again.South Africa is not like a dying planet trying to survive on last available resources.Instead of creating opportunities for disadvantaged blacks,we saw the seed of ‘victim feeling’.To me its like saying relax, you don’t have to struggle for better life,your wealth is hidden somewhere in the farms or whites owned industries.Mark my words,if this denial tendency of political veterans and spoiled youth league jokes dont stop,we are going Zimbabwe way soon.Unfortunately I can’t see signs of retreat.

  237. Bigtshaka – we do have a lot going for us and I truly believe in this country. I am not originally from here, come from Denmark, yes, you are right in the way the British waste money on their royal weddings, to me it is laughable and unjustified but the British people obviously loves it, then again to compare it to Swaziland or any other African country is not relevant. The British people, the masses , the people on the ground are not starving, so a comparison to it being justifiable cannot be made. Remember your history lesson?? Marie Antoinette of France? “if they cannot afford bread, let them eat cake” ?? That one so sticks with me when I think of any African country where the leaders are big and fat and overfed, driving big flashy cars, that neither you nor I could afford ( not that I want one, is happy with my little Golf) flashy clothes and jewellery and the people who voted them in is living in squalor and poverty, not being able to afford a bread , the children walks without shoes and cannot get to a school if there is one. The powers that be makes a big show of opening up a new school or a couple of DPD houses and everyone believes their turn is next, surely. I cannot believe that after 15 years equality has not come in to the play yet, and still you vote for the same party, believe the same old lies and give the white man the blame, because one of your leaders tell you that it is his fault. Well Heeeeloooo, when are you all going to wake up and get someone in who is prepared to put his money where his mouth is and stop feathering his own nest???

    PS no chance of anything positive happening and overseas assistance while there is still talk of slitting white people’s throat while they sleep and take what they have. Most of us have pretty little I can assure you and do what we can to help our fellow man, white, black , brown or yellow, praying for a change of government so this country can take it s rightful place in Africa as the leader of Democracy and change and reconciliation. Every white person I know is ready to step up and do the work if asked. But we are tired of being murdered, raped and robbed and having to live like prisoners in our own homes, however humble they might been, we worked for it for years, no black sweat taints what little I have got, I earned it fair and square working very hard and watching my money and saving. I never got a hand out as I am a foreigner and as such not really welcome in the first place thought they wanted my skills.

  238. The problem with a monarchy is that the people are subjects of the Monarch whereas in a Republic they are citizens.. Kings and Queens do not have a divine right to rule and history shows us that unless they serve their people, those same people will chuck them out. Britain cut the powers of their monarchs through an evolutionary democratic process and yes it does cost the British public but hold a referendum and the poms would vote overwhelmingly for the Monarchy. It is doubtful that the Swazi public would.Italy got rid of theirs with a referendum, France chopped their heads off. Russia shot them. The Swazi monarchy has that choice do well by your citizens and you will create a long term dynasty, silence them and one day they may chop their heads off.

  239. I found real peace and no race matters to me if they have good principles and high moral standards. I was given a Bible by a white lady 25 years ago in Potgietersrust on a street corner , that is how I found peace and how to live in harmony with everybody, enemies are not people it is the wicked forces of evil spirits that causes all this hate racism and diversity. My friends is from all races and we do not have any problems because we think the same and treat everyone the same. It is sad the way the youth follows a man shouting and pointing fingers calling for murder. God will punish him if he carries on because what you sow you reap. My son i told him if he goes to those meetings he will be in big trouble , but he is a good child and will never be together with such hooligans. We must just all pray togehter then we will also stay together in peace. that is what i ask from GOD everyday

  240. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Bigtshaka – actually the British monarchy costs the British taxpayer the massive sum of 13 pence per person per year – translated into “real” money that works out at about R 1,50 per person per year – and that is for the WHOLE royal family, The rest comes out of the incomes they have from their estates etc – which some may claim they should not have in the first place as having been inherited from their antecedents over the centuries and goodness only knows how they were obtained – except that bloodshed must have been part of the process.
    That tax burden is a total of +/- R 90 million per year. How much is the total tax burden on the people of Swaziland?

  241. @impi, I like the way you think, our fight is not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers.
    We are all one nation under God. Pray that they see the light.

  242. Thank you Daffy if all the believers follow the command to shine in the darkness then the whole country can live in the light. Too many like the darkness and they will one day also disappear like stars in a black hole.

  243. Fellow people our GOD is really not a DUDE who turns the other cheek when people fall out of favour with him…he punishes time and time again.Now why in this discush must we hide stark things under the carpet in favour of one race.The issue we have been tackling is should there be redress…i hope we are all in favour of that.But i know we all agree that the way it is done is key.We don’t want the dole system we want our citizens to learn a trade and make a living out of it (not crime or murder that is) and we want the valley between the races to become a plateau not a rift valley right.So i think going back to basics lets peacefully have a period of redress.We don’t want our citizens becoming lazy we want them to learn to run farms,businesses etc but we must all agree that it will take not less than 50 to 100 years to get there…its a process.If done peacefully with mutual respect and sensitivity i am sure SA can be the envy of nations….and Zim too for that matter.If we agree to redress then politicians like Malema will have nothing much to talk about…if we disagree then guess what….chaos.Lets be proactive and lead these politicians by the nose for a change these are real issues.If in doubt have a frank discush with your maid or gardner or guard and ask them how they feel….they WANT REDRESS.

  244. Just to see why let me share that i had this discussion with my gardner and maid and said this is what Desmond Tutu said and the way their eyes sparkled was amazing.It wasn’t a racial tirade the garnder said can’t these whites see that we also need to benefit from this our land which they took from us.Sure we appreciate the developments and progress made.Where would blacks be today if there was no coli

  245. “When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” – Jimi Hendrix

  246. @Bigtshaka, don’t appreciate you calling GOD a DUDE, where is the respect.

  247. What about all the thousands of white conscripts who were largely forced and/or brainwashed into sacrificing for the then regime. We were clearly disadvantaged
    in as much as much of our youth was wasted and now we who have worked hard and risked much must again be discriminated against.

  248. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Bigtshaka – “Where would blacks be today if there was no coli ” – you seem to have died in mid sentence. I’m sure that everyone else is also hanging on to see what the thought was – or did you miss out the “E.” before coli ???

    ??? Where would blacks be today if there was no E. coli? ???

  249. a-maize it is actually egoli

  250. @a-maize-ingly-corny and Peace – no he wanted to say : without colonies, but the power went off mid word

  251. Eish for sure power cut!…..so you see.Where would blacks be if there was no colonialism coz the necessary evil did bring development.What we can do in our generation is to make the present livable.We can only blame forefathers upto a point….BUT we can make the present better.I have just turned on the generator…

  252. If one could earn money on predictions…..i’d say in SA i Julius may be a future President of your beautiful country one day.Judging by his popularity in the Youth and SA is made up of lotsa youths.Things will get really interesting then.

  253. @Daffy i apologise…BUT i really talk to GOD as i do my father and i believe in a David type of personal relationship with GOD thats why…no disrespect…much too much love for GOD.Hope you understand.

  254. @ Bigtshaka – that is the day, I pack my stuff, burn my home to the ground and drive across the borders to Botswana or Namibia.

  255. @ Daffy – Bigtshaka did not really call God a Dude, he simply said : ” our GOD is really not a DUDE ” , I doubt he meant any disrespect at all. I am totally convinced that God moved with the times together with us and is not the old fashioned, long robed, long bearded Lord of times, but has a chuckle over cell phone jokes and emails at times too and says: golly gosh kids what were you thinking, anyway the Lord that I believe in !

  256. I have said this before and I will say it again. The worst thing that ever happened to Africa was the arrival of the colonists. The second worst thing was their departure.

  257. @Garth I disagree with you Garth look blacks in Africa were actually a civilsed people there was law,rules and regulations and punishment and customs.But when colonialists just believed we were savages and had no rules etc…New rules and subjugation came in and oppression and something good…christianity,infrastructure came out of it all.As blacks got educated they really put together strategies to get their land back.And had the whites had the foresight to incorporate blacks what wars of independence would have happened….NONE.So the colonialists leave guess what black Africans have had to learn to rule and yes a number have become dictators why? coz our rulers even before colonialists were absolute rulers Tshaka,Lobengula,Mzilikazi,the Dlaminis in Swaziland etc so its not the colonialists leaving that is a f…ck up its the fact that we have rulers who have never successfully run a tuckshop and the world today requires learned people who can plan and strategise…a country is like a huge corporation and thats what we all fail to grasp.Blacks need to learn and it won’t take 2 years to do.Instead lets all pull together and make it work without much more finger pointing….but redress must happen.At least thats my opinion and after that us blacks must also forgive and move on we have to draw a line somewhere.

  258. We all cringe at the thought of blacks getting 51% ownership of key industries etc in most parts of the world thats the case.try set up a business in Spain,Portugal or Greece you have to have a locals involved.When its done in Africa gosh the angels must come down and save Africa…and yet its quite normal.My only worry is lets redress and train blacks to then be able to run these corporations…farms etc @ Notaround don’t leave coz who wins: Julius, stay and make a change…contribute to change whats the point of running away? stay and fight for whats yours…but understand that Julius is an SPV his use is there if whites resist the redress i keep referring to its politics Julius is echoing the wishes of most blacks its just we all don’t agree with his methods but he does have a point…once that is bagged well Julius can be minister of housing or Trust creation (chuckle!!)….Resist and don’t share and he can be President whites can make or break this country its that simple.Share and create a unified country….resist sharing and all hell will break loose….coz extremists can then have a field day.Just start talking of sharing and Julius will be nowhere – strategy.

  259. @Bigtshaka, apology accepted.

    @Notaround, I do believe GOD has a sense of humour, but HE is the same yesterday, to-day and forever, he does not change.

  260. Bigtshaka, Is Julius echoing the wishes of the people when his ANCYL thugs destroy street stalls belonging to poor people trying to earn a crust. Is he echoing their wishes when he calls for revolution. Does he know that revolution is bloody and can kill. Does he know that starting a revoltion is treason.. Is he aware that his call for treason and revolution is against his own party leadership. Is this the wish of the people.

  261. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Garth “Is Julius echoing the wishes of the people when his ANCYL thugs destroy street stalls belonging to poor people trying to earn a crust?” Of course he is – the poor and unemployed (dare I say unemployable) youth are so jealous of Moolius and his “Trust Fund” and anyone else who has wherewithall – no matter how little – that, because they have not the gumption to do something for themselves, they will destroy anything that smacks of ‘capitalism’, ‘employment’ etc. Moolius is so intent on becoming President of (first) the ANC and then of the country that he is even prepared to sacrifice the ANC by jollying along his supporters in whatever mayhem seems to push his personal agenda forwards. Moolius just wants POWER and MONEY – and the ANCYL is a great tool to deliver them both.

    PERHAPS Moolius is not echoing THEIR wishes but goading them into achieving his own.

    Whichever – revolution is treason and treason is TREASON!!!

  262. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Don’t forget that he is “leading” the MAJORITY – the ‘youth’ (i.e. persons between 18 and 35 y.o.) are the largest block of voters in the country – they outnumber the 35+ y.o. and the 0-17s don’t count – yet!

  263. Garth our forum for change is gaining momentum fast, plus we are operating within the law, no violence no destruction on the contrary it will be uplift those who do not benefit from the current situation. We will do it the way it is being done in the US , no publicity needed and it is a legal practice. This is how theirs started.
    Welcome to the second American Revolution. If you’re frustrated with government you are not alone. Sky rocketing debt, unemployment, underemployment, taxes, deficits, government failure, corruption and greed are just the tip of the iceberg that are about to sink this country. We need a revolution in government and a paradigm shift in technology if we’re serious about moving the United States forward. Simply put, the Revolution 2.0 movement, is a
    clearly defined, peaceful, lawful and orderly process of phasing out our old inadequate government while we transition to a modern form of government that is capable of meeting the needs of the American people in the 21st century and beyond. Yes you guessed it; the people are done with talking and sipping tea. We can no longer govern ourselves with 17th century governments and ideas. The times have changed, so must we.

    “We really need a better government than what we have”
    – Paul Krugman, Nobel Prize Winning Economist, 2009

    Every American citizen needs to know they have the right (which was declared in the Declaration of Independence) to peacefully take control of their country from their government, in order to establish a new and better government. They also need to know they have a formal process (DDT/EDT) so they can exercise that right. Serious problems in serious times, demand serious solutions.

  264. The idea is OK-as long as he also pays. He has lived as a white man for years-inBishops Court and here in Milnerton-like Yengeni. Go for it Desmond !!

  265. @mzu, did you know that there was no double story structures in africa … that is untill other races came and settled here. If not for the immigrants of other races, africa will have been so poor. What would you have been fighting for then? Tribal territory? Killing each other, raping the loosing tribes woman, and taking their property …. so what is that called … tribal “racism”? So when are the victorious tribes gonna give the property/land they have stolen back to the tribes they have taken it from? Following your logic here, all the black africans must then pay tax too.

  266. Mzu are you aware that prior to 1952 there were no black history recorded, and suddenly they made a subject of it in the 1990′s with no substantial proof but just on hearsay. Neither do they record the system of trade that were used. Many cattle, sheep and horses were imported and exchanged for land. IF then socalled majority then did not want the whites why did they not murder them like they did to all the other tribes??? They outnumbered the whites 10000 to 1.
    Looking at the causes of some of the earliest rivalries between African tribes, we find that the age old issues such as land come into play. This was indeed the case with one famous African tribe, the Maasai, who originated from the lower Nile valley. A semi-nomadic African tribe, they started migrating south during the 17th and 18th century to a stretch of land that now encompasses northern Kenya and central Tanzania. Once there, they waged war with the resident African tribe, displacing them. Even until the 19th century did this form of tribal violence continue, as the Maasai continued their trail of destruction on other resident Africa tribes in southern Kenya as far as Mombassa.
    Going a bit further south, we find another African tribe who, among countless others, sought to bring a fair amount of destruction upon their neighbours. These were the Imbangala, a tribe that originated from the Kasanje kingdom in central West Africa and appeared in the area we know today as Angola during the 17th century. They lived according to the quixilla laws, laws that included cannibalism, torture and human sacrifice. Their main activities including attacks on other tribes in search for loot and young adolescent men and women to join their camp. The adolescent men were forced into cannibalism, plied with fermented tree sap and had no choice but to join the army, only becoming a fully fledged member after killing an enemy in combat.

  267. Peace I think you know by now that I have no time for your misinformed stupid comments. IWhite, go and say that crap to your stupid whites not me.. I hate you people with passion.

  268. Mzu – I don’t know who you are but I really feel very sorry for you. It must be a real burden to carry around that much spite and hatred every day. This is the only life you are ever going to have. You can embrace it and learn and grow or you can stay forever ignorant and never see the beauty around you.

  269. @whatagain, so true. We should be embracing peace, harmony, love and fellowship. Hatred will poison people who live off it. If Mr/Mrs/ Miss/ Mevrou Mzu would only think for half a minute with that half brain that he/she has, she/he will realise that as long as he/she may live there will be whites in South Africa also Chinese, Indian, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, atheists, Coloureds, Japanese, Somalis, Zimbabweans, Kenyans, and maybe Muammar Gadaffi. If you cannot accept that we are a multi cultural society maybe you should move to some place where there is a 100% black population such as Rwanda. Of course you may have to grow your own yams as they are unlikely to have Kentucky. You Mr/Mrs/Miss are an extreme racist and we do not need you.

  270. Those who earn more have always paid more in a higher percentage of earnings going to tax.
    You cannot enrich the poor by impoverishing the rich.

  271. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Yes Mzu – when you finally arrive in Hell you will find “whites” there to hate also.
    I don’t know if they are in charge but I’m sure that their very presence will make Hell hell for you.

  272. There was a song I used to sing as a child, loudly and with vigour, a song of hope and yearning and a plea for the small mercies of paternal indulgence.

    “Ag pleez Deddy, won’t you take us to the drive-in,” it went, before ascending to a checklist of the heavenly delights to be consumed while sitting in your pyjamas on the backseat.

    “Popcorn, chewing-gum, peanuts and bubble gum, ice-cream, candyfloss and Eskimo Pie/ Ag daddy, how we miss, niggerballs and liquorice … ”

    Listening to the song again the other day, after an absence of decades, I was jolted upright by a sudden epiphany of adulthood.

    Had I really been that naïve, that innocent, that sheltered from the world beyond the small mining town where I grew up on the fringes of Johannesburg? Yes.

    To me, niggerballs were confectionery, hard as marbles, that you popped into your mouth and pincered out every now and again, watching them shift from black to red to orange to yellow to green to blue, until all you had left was a tiny white pearl that you either flicked away or slukked down your gullet.

    These days, we call them gobstoppers, I think.

    These days, we watch the words that we sing, finely attuned to the delicacies of double-meaning.

    These days, when Jeremy Taylor sings his Ballad of the Southern Suburbs, he sings of sugarballs and liquorice instead.

    CONTINUES BELOW

    But there were other songs back then, songs I never knew or heard, songs sung on a different frequency or swallowed up by radio silence.

    There was a song of hope and yearning, a plea for the Good Lord to rain benediction down on Africa, and for the Holy Spirit to be made flesh.

    You couldn’t sing that song in public, for fear of being charged with … I don’t know, singing a song in public.

    But we’ve come a long way, us blessed Africans, and today we happily sing from the same hymnbook.

    True, the anthem we sing is a spot-welded collage that awkwardly shifts gear from a prayer for redemption to a pledge to live or perish, but we sing it to the best of our phonetic abilities, our hands on our hearts, safe in the knowledge that never again will we have to live in a society where we are told what songs we can and cannot sing. That’s what I thought, too.

    But this week, a pronouncement from the Bench left me with an awful feeling of Déjà Verwoerd in the pit of my stomach, of a gear grinding into reverse, as a judge declared words to be weapons and a song to be a crime.

    Maybe I am still naïve and innocent and sheltered from the world, but I want my Bill of Rights to be a Bill without sub-clauses and codicils and ifs and buts and notwithstandings.

    I want the law to err on the side of Too Much Freedom. I want to accord to you, as you accord to me, the ability to be guided by a moral GPS that requires no calibration by a guardian of the Constitution.

    I want the right to be shocked and offended, and the right to shock and offend in turn. I want the right to be wrong.

    Never mind the songs of history, the songs that are hardly ever sung, except loudly and with vigour outside court on the day they are banned.

    Never mind the singer who calls for a machine gun, unless an actual machine gun is produced.

    Never mind the troubadour who calls on the ghost of a general to come back and liberate his people.

    I like to fool myself into thinking, 21 years after De Klerk made his Speech, that we have travelled far enough along the road to be able to stop and hear each other’s songs, to ask what they mean and why they are being sung.

    I remember sitting in a studio at the SABC during the State of Emergency, as someone eased a vinyl record out of its sleeve, and showed me where a knitting-needle had been applied to scratch out the tracks that could never be played.

    But they were played. And they were sung. And they were heard.

    You can’t duct-tape people’s voices by decree. You can’t seal off the thoughts that ring in their heads.

    You can’t, in our new society, carry on telling people what’s good for them.

    If someone sings a song of hate, let us sing a song of love in turn. If someone sings a song that hurts, let us sing a song that heals. And if all else fails, let us sing our songs of war, until we drown each other out and go back to what we were doing before.

    Our GPS will tell us when we are going too far. We rely on common sense, goodwill, and our shared humanity to keep us from shouting bloody manslaughter in public, unless of course we are bidding farewell to the national rugby squad as they set off on their mission of conquest to New Zealand.

    I don’t want to go back to the strange and mixed-up country of my childhood.

    I don’t want to lie in bed at night, listening to the song of the siren that tells people to get off the streets of my suburb.

    I want to live in this strange and mixed-up country, with its Darrens and its Gareths and its Floyds and its JuMas and its Steves and its Helens, and I want to hear their voices and their songs and judge for myself, your honour, whether they are right or they are wrong. Ag pleez, Deddy.

    Gus Silber, also known as @gussilber, is a journalist and author who tweets when he isn’t journalling or authoring, and also when he is.

  273. @ Notaround – too true, we will have to see what the damage this ruling is going to do for future things here. Scary to think that the past could happen again!

  274. Without getting too technical it would be nice for a redress to happen and we all agree to draw a line and from there move fwd…..lest we keep this up and stop moving fwd.Unfortunately decades of repression do have an impact and you and i know that money or gold does make the heart grow fonder….”the adage money doesn’t buy you happiness…but it certainly helps you get there” comes to mind…
    I am black and to be honest i don’t need the money i have made my own money as a professional but jeez it would be nice to get reparations of sorts for that inhuman treatment.So call it what you like we need redress and fast BUT after that lets be one country and lets forgive and move on.I am not saying a once off payment…it could be a tax for 5 years going to a fund for blacks,coloured,indians and others marginalised by Apartheid eg it could be 3 months.Lets put it to a referendum we do have one of the fairest constitutions in the world!

  275. @Bigtshaka, I do not have a problem with that, provided we know that the funds are going to the right people and not squandered so as to enrich people who do not deserve it. How do we keep track of that ??

  276. We don’t want to take cash literally i am sure my countrymen would agree to say free education to varsity ,access to medical assistance state assisted funerals…tangible social things assistance to disadvantaged communities…eg boreholes…solar for rural communities etc At least i speak for my family why would we want cash…its a nice idea…but its impractical.Address is address and to avoid fuelling corruption even more the assistance needs to be social in nature…??

  277. Political economist Moeletsi Mbeki addresses the DA’s Economic Freedom In Our Lifetime debate

    This passages are from his book– Moeletsi Mbeki predictions of future SA.

    I can predict when SA’s “Tunisia Day” will arrive. Tunisia Day is when
    the masses rise against the powers that be, as happened recently in
    Tunisia. The year will be 2020, give or take a couple of years. The year
    2020 is when China estimates that its current minerals-intensive
    industrialisation phase will be concluded.

    For SA, this will mean the African National Congress (ANC) government
    will have to cut back on social grants, which it uses to placate the
    black poor and to get their votes. China’s current industrialisation
    phase has forced up the prices of SA’s minerals, which has enabled the
    government to finance social welfare programmes. The ANC is currently
    making SA a welfare state and tends to ‘forget’ that there is only a
    minority that pay all the taxes.

    They are often quick to say that if people (read whites) are not happy they should leave. The more people
    that leave, the more their tax base shrinks. Yes, they will fill the
    positions with BEE candidates (read blacks), but if they are not capable
    of doing the job then the company will eventually fold as well as their
    ‘new’ tax base. When there is no more money available for handouts they
    will then have a problem because they are breeding a culture of handouts
    instead of creating jobs so people can gain an idea of the value of
    money.

    If you keep getting things for free then you lose the sense of
    its value. The current trend of saying if the west won’t help then
    China will is going to bite them. China will want payment – ie land for
    their people and will result in an influx of Chinese (there is no such
    thing as a free lunch!)

  278. SA has the option of educated,versatile and resilient workers (read Zimbabweans) to ensure the SA economy doesn’t fall..its already happening lots of key posts in listed Groups are led by Zimbos black and white.The Chinese yes that is a problem…but you know what the West have been doing what the Chinese are doing much longer its just we all cry foul coz they are not the most likable…but are very hard working people.So in answer we need help doesn’t matter if its east or west.After all the west is now so completely dependent on China..Apple,even GM uses China so thats a pandora’s box!SA’s Tunisia will come fast if the poor are ignored hence the tax benefitting the poor to regulate things and benefitiate free education eg

  279. @Notaround, I am in full agreement, let the songs be sung but if you are going to sing about shooting boers do not get upset when baboons climb the mountain or we want to suck niggerballs.

  280. You bastards are disgusting.

  281. @Mzu – *looking innocent* – cannot stand the heat ??? You started it !!! I promise not to use the K ‘ word if you promise not to shoot the boer. Pas op, you might be stirring up more shit than you can handle.

  282. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @Mzu – Well I know that you don’t think that I am disgusting – my parents were married before I was even conceived.

  283. Whose parents weren’t stupid chick? Well what I must admit I do like about you reptiles is that you’re so stupid that you think if you ban the song then people won’t sing it. Well they won’t sing it on TV but they will actually follow the lyrics. Whites are dying 1 by 1 currently in the farms and if I knew the killers I would pay the bail for them.

  284. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Watch out Mzu – this qualifies as hate speech – and (as you know) is punishable by the courts.

  285. @Mzu, you have lowered the tone of this debate because 1. you are a racist 2. you have nothing constructive to say and 3. You are ignorant. Wakey wakey, before you all die of AIDS

  286. I don’t want to have a constructive conversation with demons Garth. Corny press charges then, you know the courts is the only messiah you have in SA…hahahahahahahaha

  287. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @Mzu – correction – you don’t want to have a constructive conversation – FULL STOP.
    All you want is to whip up racial feelings between people who have few, if any, prejudices and get them to polarise into the old Apartheid system of classification. Sorry – we’re NOT INTERESTED.
    @ PM – the time has come when you should consider editing or even deleting such blatant hate speech and any other posts which either are criminal in intent or are likely to provoke criminal acts. Mzu is definitely an ‘agent provocateur’ for those who want to destabilise South Africa.
    Leave this blog to those who seriously want to debate the issue and/or want to push a little humour into the debate.

  288. eish, here we go again !!

  289. Destabilise SA means repossesing our land and wealth again…lol… It will be destabilised again, I promise you.

  290. People – why do you let Mzu get to you. Ignore it. You are dealing with a damaged child and those of you who have children know not to give negative reinforcement.
    I really enjoy reading the comments and seeing the debate unfold. There is so much goodwill and positive energy so let’s not let Mzu ruin all our efforts.
    I am sitting working and luckily can look out of the window and it is a glorious day and we live in a beautiful country. This country belongs to us all so let’s work to make it right for all.

  291. @ whatagain – True – in Durb’s today the weather is great. I am looking forward an awesome weather weekend too!

  292. @ Jen and Whatagain – sun is shining in Joburg too, though a bit cool, TGIF- going to be a lovely weekend, don’t forget to smile at all you meet and be a little extra kind to everyone you meet, the teller, the beggar, the street child, the lady in the cue ahead of you, chances are it might make their day too. Hugs and smiles to everyone , even sourpuss Mzu !!!

  293. How sweet of the angels from GOD/SAtan himself.

  294. @Mzu, what you need is inner healing, what are you achieving with all the hatred.

    Have a great weekend everyone.

  295. Hi Jen, and all the rest of you even including Mzu, have a great weekend. Just kinda busy still but regards as well. Next Friday would be great for another fun day.

  296. Have a good one too.

  297. Ahhh sweet hey you South Africans are getting there hey…forgive and make up..don’t let the politicians use us.

  298. eish @ Mzu – it is working , positive thinking. Smile – the first positive thing from you. Enjoy your weekend……………….catch up next week.

  299. Mzu is not a damaged child he/she/it is a raving mad delinquent. We must feel sorry for him/her/it because his/her/ its parents never got married. And we must also feel sorry for him/her/it because it/she/ he is so bloody ignorant. Maybe some time as a hunter/gatherer would change his/her/its outlook because that is how we are all going to live if all the Whites,Chinese, Indians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, atheists, Coloureds, Japanese, Somalis, Zimbabweans, Kenyans, and maybe Muammar Gadaffi. leave.

  300. one last word from me, before we meet to discuss Zuma and the reopened arms deal case, something I just read which struck me as being very pertinent to the discussion ref. land grabbing by Mzu and kill all the boers:
    “Burn down your cities and leave our farms, and your cities will spring up again as if by magic; but destroy our farms and the grass will grow in the streets of every city in the country.”
    -William Jennings Bryan

  301. How is it that Desmond Tutu himself lives in one of the most expensive residences in Bishopscourt ………..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  302. Wonkie, please delete this page, we have too many Wonkie pages to contend with, rather direct Jo and his comments to one of the new ones. Anyway Tutu can live where he like he is one of the few honest South Africans.

  303. I am of the opinion that this wealth tax should be for everyone, irrespective of their colour, race, or religious affiliation, tax for a separate class is not just discriminatory but also racist no matter how you look at it, It is high time we end these racial issues in South Africa and come together as one

  304. We have to pay for Nkandla somehow.

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