pieter mulder land reform cartoon

pieter mulder land reform

Pieter Mulder – Land Reform Cartoon

Freedom Front Plus leader and deputy agriculture minister, Pieter Mulder recently made some controversial comments about land reform in South Africa. Wonkie suspects that Mr Mulder was sensing the media void created by the lack of Julius Malema and courageously tried to step up to the plate. Unfortunately, he came close but didn’t earn his Noddy badge this time. At least, he needed to have rounded off his statements with a violent death threat, or an appeal for white mass action to come close.

The redistribution of wealth and land is one of the most hotly debated topics in South Africa, evident from the super-popular Desmond Tutu tax the whites cartoon which attracted over 300 comments on Wonkie. Usually, the debate revolves around how much redistribution is enough, rather than whether it is necessary or not. Mr Mulder, however, adventurously decided to leap that trivial issue by questioning whether land redistribution was even necessary at all.

“Africans in particular never in the past lived in the whole of South Africa … There is sufficient proof that there were no Bantu-speaking people in the Western Cape and north-western Cape…” – Pieter Mulder

In his parliamentary address, Mr Mulder subsequently claimed that black Bantu-speaking people had no historical claim to some 40% of the arable land in South Africa. Before slapping Mr Mulder with the stupidity sticker however, consider the fact that his statement may in fact be true. If the argument were about entitlement because of who was here first, his statement may even have warranted some valid consideration. However, Mr Mulder appears to be a sound product of the South African education system and has wound up adding apples and apples to get bananas.

The sound argument for land reform in South Africa is not based on who was here first – it never was (other than by equally stupid commentators at the other end of Mulder’s political spectrum). It is based on the fact that the apartheid-era Land Act restricted ownership of some 87% of South Africa to whites only. Non-white South Africans were unequivocally instructed where they could live and own land, and where they could not. It is the harsh consequence of that very law that now drives the need for restitution.

Since by definition a discriminatory law is unfair, restitution in this case practically amounts to some agreed land redistribution deal. The debate to restore equity thus has to be about how much is fair and how to do it – as it is in the case of redistribution of wealth, argument a la Tutu.

No doubt, many young white South Africans will feel they are being hard done by the likes of currently discriminatory laws – BEE, affirmative action, even potentially land reform. After all, they weren’t responsible for the apartheid government – in fact, they probably never even had the opportunity to vote for it. So why should they suffer for something they had no control over?

The answer lies in an analogy that can be drawn from US law – it’s called the fruit of the poisonous tree. It is fundamentally unfair to derive benefit, now or in the future, from something that is tainted. Unfortunately for those young white South Africans, apartheid – albeit the law of the previous generation, cannot be described as anything but tainted.

Share YOUR COMMENT on Pieter Mulder’s view on land reform in South Africa.
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Related Wonkie posts on nationalisation and redistribution of wealth in South Africa:

  1. Nationalisation of mines in South Africa

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Comments

  1. Does the Deputy Minister actually state that land distribution should be based on his historical claims? Is he not merely stating facts against the backdrop of black sentiment which regards whites as settlers (some even claiming that they need a bullet)?

  2. This is a typical white mentality – oh, apartheid is gone now… these blacks must just move on peacefully and make the most of what they got. Yeah right! When are you lot going to understand that you WILL PAY for what you did to us and this country.

    @Michboet – he was specifically talking about land reform and refering to the fact that according to your WHITE version of history, blacks are not entitled to make a historical claim.. not merely stating ‘facts’ on some stupid backdrop so whites can feel better about what they did. One day you guys will have your land taken from you like in Zim and then I’d love to see you cry like babies.

  3. Mabang, get out of your typical “beshu” mentality. Who are the people crying in Zim?Not the whites but the blacks who sort of “righted” their historical claims. We whites must pay for what we did to this country?? Boy, oh boy, then you guys will have to start to pay!! SA is the most advanced country in Africa and that thanks to the whites which you so abhore. Get real my friend, in SA we need each other and you cannot rectify one mistake with another. Goverment is stealing you blind, is that also an apartheid mistake? Think again and think like an adult and not like zombie

  4. @Mabang
    I understand that many blacks are angry for what people in the past have done. I am in my thirties and white. I am sitting in a boat like many other younger white South Africans. We are being punished for the crimes of people that came before us. I can remember the day Mandela was released and I remember not understanding the significance because I was too young. People like you teach hate in the younger people and so the cycle continues. I want my kids to grow up without the hate of previous generations. They don’t care about skin colour because I taught them that there is not difference between us. They then go to school and get treated badly by black kids who have been taught the hate of their parents and grandparents. When will it end if all you can think of is revenge.

    It’s a bad idea to bring up Zim to be honest. That place didn’t turn out to good did it?

  5. COLLITJIES says:

    I don’t wish to become part of any debate, however history according to history clearly states that both black and white plus all other colours in South Africa are all settlers like it or not. Please remember not all South Africans (white) benifitted from apartheid.

  6. Not being so young at least I still know history is taken in context. As much as you might not like ite, you cannot take 1802, 1789, 1913, 1899, juggle them into the order you like and then quote them as FACT. The Land Act 1913 – this was
    a year some problems were started. NOW Let us all be honest and make 2013 the year when the actually issue was put on the table, warts and all. Who legally owns the land, who is using it productively, who has abused the land that it is no longer productive, how many migrant grazers are still moving around. How many acquired land during the previous 20 years and
    how productive are they. Do they contribute to the economy, help feed the nation and do their share in training prospective farmers.

  7. i think its just a matter of time b4 all hell breaks loose,murdering of farmers,doesnt this show that blacks r starting to take their land back…they r coming n getting vigilant everyday,n poepols like mulder is going to get us in trouble,i understand we need each other but as long as we white people keep on being hostile towards blacks we r asking for it as it took years to mobilise them dont u think its they r mobilising as well,lets us watch where we thread and live with these people,we have invested in this country n we dont need mulders to destroy what we built with these people

  8. Helloooo!!!!!! to all of you commentators.

    if you were not moved from any land, please save your time by not commenting on this today.
    My great grand – parents used to live in the rich land of ga-Makgoba, now called ( Magoebaskloof ). Thanks my grand-mother lived to tell us the story.

    The white South Africans who came here first forced the clan to move away from the area.
    They lived there, here is one stupid thing they did. they sold the very same land to the German’s.
    Are we not supposed to claim land that was taken from us, this is just an example of land taken away from blacks. by taking it away I mean, they were denied the right to own land. Now it is biting back, feel it.

  9. free housing, free land, free education, free healthcare for all……………….oh, oh not for whites, coloured or indians, only for blacks…………oh oh……the rest must pay for it…………..nothing free there. I never had anything for free either and was discriminated against as I was an immigrant, now my children are suffering because of that and they were born here…….children of the rainbow land………….

  10. I was shocked and disgusted by what that old man said. How can he try to divide the country like that? If what he said was based on who came first in South Africa then whites can lay no claim to the land in this country. Blacks were the first to come to South Africa. How can he be so sure that Bantus never lived in the Western Cape? Whites must claim ownership of the land in Netherlands (Europe) not in Africa. That is where they left their ancestral land and came to kill and harass black people in Africa. Shame to them. “We came from the South and they came from the North asnd we met at the Kei river” What a crap!!!!. They came from the South from which continent and we came from the North from which continent?

  11. Should’nt this analogy of the ‘Fruits of the poisonious tree” includes the current corruption and looting of our taxes by the current lot as well.
    Their family and friends could probably buy all the farmland not stolen yet.The same taxes also pays their court fees and golden handshakes if caught
    Now thats really poisonious compared to being limited to where you can buy land.

  12. @ Collitjies. “however history according to history clearly states that both black and white plus all other colours in South Africa are all settlers like it or not.” How can black people be settlers in their own continent? Whites are just bullies. Came here and bullied us off our land and claim that we are all settlers. Crap crap crap crap and more crap. Think of it, Europeans being settlers in Europe. What a plateful piece of sh*t!!!!

  13. Santi Ntampi says:

    The land restitution debacle in South Africa is often taken lightly as if those disppossed black people are now all dead as we speak. Well, I am now 47 years old and remember what happened in 1977 when young white khaki uniformed men brought in bull-dozers to flatten our houses, loading us into trucks and buses destined for Keiskamahoek, leaving large crop on the fields and animals that could not be transported along. My grandmother died a short while later because of unbrearable trauma endured from the experience of losing everything over one day. How many others whose lives were permanently destroyed remains unknown. Maybe we had stolen the land we lost from Mr Mulder prior to being forcefully removed, according to Mr Mulder’s contention. That is how insensitive he is about these issues. Congratulations for being such a stateman, Mr Mulder, and these are for same reasons you would still like to hold on to apartheid’s ill gotten gains. Only caring about white privilege, whether legit or not. Loser of The Year, that is what you are!

  14. if we are looking only to who was first in Africa , all our fore forefathers came from Africa and emigrated North to Europe !

  15. if we are looking only to who was first in Africa , all our fore forefathers came from Africa and emigrated North to Europe !

  16. O Prinkipas says:

    Like Dr. Pieter Mulder(FFPlus) says: Africans came from the equator and white people came from the south, he he he. What south? LOL. this man thinks he is from Atlantis and he is a descendant of “water people”.

    Eshee, white people came from Europe. Khoi Sans are Africans. they speak Afrikaans now sure, but they are africans LOL.

    Let us share the land equally so everyone who lives in it can bekefit, stop acting like a spoilt child who brings his toys to the group and expect everyone to just watch him play alone. Ha ha. I mean we all know that if you are in any way a descendant of the dudes that rocked up in the Cape in 1652; and stayed. You are an African. Or at least; a South African.

    Deel net die land uit.

  17. Why should white South Africans be sent to the Netherlands. Many of our ancesors came from England!!. The british Settlers arrived at more or less the same taime as the Nguni people came from the Mfecane. If we go, may we take with us the hospitals and schools etc. they built? Further, if we have to go, what happens to all the Pakistani’s, West Indians and Black South Africans who have move in to England – asre they to be sent back where they came from?????

  18. Sorry – typos in my last comment. british” shouild be “British”, “taime” should be “time”, “have move” should be “have moved) and “asre” should be “are” Uxolo!!

  19. We cannot afford land redistribution in the manner that they are doing it. We are taking productive land and making it unproductive. Before we take t6he land we need to educate the new farmers. We need to provide them with technical, marketing and financial support. How does a new farmer buy a tractor or harvester, how does he pay for a load of fertiliser and when his crop gets ruined does he have insurance and how does he sell his crop. Land reform must not be about change of ownership it must be about producing food for the population. How much food do we now import, and what we don’t import is more expensive. Secondly I do not like the threads issued by Mabang they sound very racist. As for blacks taking back Africa in reality the traffic is one way Blacks pour into Europe in hope of a better life. Tell me why Mabang, Rio?

  20. Forget the Land Act of 1913. The Blacks, call them Bantu or Muntu or N’guni or whatever are a distinct group of people different to the San and the Indians and the Whites and Coloureds (both Cape Malay based and mixed SA races.) They displaced the San as sureley as the Aussies displaced the Abbo’s, the NZ the Maories, the Spanish and Portugeuse the people of South America, the Poms and Frogs the Indians of North America etc etc. The San have been here for an estimated 5000 years and their art work found all over South Africa including KZN and EC are evidence of their early presence. So lets be clinically fair. Lets return the world’s population to Central Africa.
    Those clamouring to invade “white” land are just looking for something else to stuff up. They are incapable of creating anything.

  21. Manthata. Give your land back to the San. Otherwise compensate them for it. Same to the rest of you who stole it from the San. Your crime was commited before any African who arrived here via Europe or India or Malaya or any one wrote the land Act of 1913

  22. Mulder: stupid beyond stupidity

  23. Mr Mulder may be quite right in his contention that, when the Dutch East India Company ships landed, the only inhabitants of what was to become known as the Cape Colony were the Khoisan. When the Hollanders trekked into the northern hinterland the same situation applied and thus it is probably correct that there were no indigenous Africans, other than the Khoisan, in the Western Cape and north-western Cape.
    However the issue of relevance currently bedevilling race relations in this country is “who does the land belong to?” It cannot be denied that many blacks in other areas of South Africa were dispossessed of their land especially by the National Party government post 1948 through their ApartHATE policies. Whether this was tribal land or land that had been legally purchased, there can be no denying that recompense or restitution is obligatory.
    Keeping of records is an essential part of European civilisation and these records should be made available to prove original ownership so that the dispossessed can reclaim what is rightfully theirs.
    The fact that certain white farmers might lose their land is unfortunate. The rights of the original owners (even if poorly recompensed) are paramount and cannot be disputed.

    Unfortunately the present discourse does not apply to these anomalies. A section of the population is claiming that, because they have black skins, the land belongs to them and them alone. Land that was legally bought and developed is considered as a claimable prize.
    Minerals were discovered, mines developed and the minerals were mined for the benefit of the country through the development of associated industries and job creation. Taxes were levied on the profits of all the beneficiaries (taxes that helped develop the counties infrastructure, not the life styles of cadres).
    Now some greedy individuals want those mines to be given to them so that they can become immensely wealthy (like Kulubuse Zuma and Zondwa Mandela at the expense of hundreds of Aurora employees).
    Others demand farms that they can allow to revert to the unproductive state they were in centuries ago, at the expense of South Africa’s food security. The State owns vast tracts of undeveloped land, but offer these same claimants land that they, themselves, need to develop and they will reject the offer with contempt.

    The biggest problem is the claim that whites have stolen the land. The only stolen land was where certain people were dispossessed or as in the case of places like Sophiatown where thousands of coloureds and blacks were forced by the Nats to make way for poor whites in the new suburb of Triomf. While I bear no standard for the likes of the Freedom Front + I must admit that Mulder’s speech had merit as seen from his statements “The problem is the disastrous way land reform is being applied. There are many letters on my desk from white commercial farmers, who have offered their land to the department and received no reply.”
    There were also many letters from white commercial farmers who had concluded sales agreements with the department and gone bankrupt three years later because the department had not paid them out.
    Mulder asked why the department of rural development did not buy farms in the Kalahari and Karoo.
    “In the Karoo and Kalahari, huge farms are available. Why does the department not buy some of that land to reach their 30% quicker? These semi-desert lands are, however, added to the 87% propaganda percentage as white land.”

    South Africa belongs to its citizens but the land itself, if not already owned, belongs to the State and can be purchased from the State or alternatively from the current purchaser-owners. The same ownership principle applies in all other functioning countries, why should we need to change the system to one of anarchy?

  24. @Tony – excellent post! Unfortunately sense no longer makes any sense in SA. It’s all about entitlement and getting everything for nothing.

    I’m all for people being compensated for wrongs done to them in the past, but must that compensation be in the form of doing wrong to someone else? Does 2 wrongs make a right all of a sudden?

    Finally, it’s quite clear to me that there is no future for whites in SA any longer. A perception has been created amongst the majority of blacks and I’m afraid there’s no turning back now. SA will follow the way the rest of Africa has gone. Including slaughtering whites.

  25. Lunga Peter says:

    The land reverts to pre-colonial Africa and belongs to those of the continent regardless which part of the continent they came from.Those who came from over-seas by sea as it was then and by air in the later years particularly the white people have no stake on land in Africa. The story ends there: you can not claim what was illegitimately acquired.It is not a matter of who came first. It is China for Chinese etc..

  26. pieter i think i should commend you for being clever and knowing what to say.you know these other people are saying all the wrong things which will make people more angry and hostile lets be honest people, mulder is opening a hornets nest which i don’t think can be closed anytime soon he is going to get people killed

  27. I think there is no need to get emotionally to the deputy president statement,because his statement represent some of our white folk,and we already knew it.The folk he represent has already been defeated long before,So I regard what he is saying as smoke from the.’his’,unfortunate collision with black majority rule.Let him keep dreaming.

  28. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Johno – there is no sense like common sense but sense in South Africa is not common.

    If there is any legitimate claim to land in South Africa that goes back as far as that of the Khoisan, it surely must be the claim of the (once vast) herds of indigenous animals – so little attention is given to their right to land that the fact that MORE than 50 rhinos were poached in South Africa in the first 50 days of this year has made no serious headlines. “The land belongs to the black man. The rhinos are on our land. The Chinese want the rhino horns (for their sex life). We want the Chinese money. It comes from OUR land” This, in South Africa today, is sense.
    SENSible people will see it for what it really is – NONsense. Just like so much that comes out of the mouth of politicians and bigots!

  29. Of course Mulder is right, historically thus, his standpoint is based on solid historical fact negating claims from ANC spokespeople who said “just because the people were not at home when you arrived there is no proof that they did not inhabit that land…” On the other hand, black were were promised land in the run-up to the first election during 1994, and the government has the power to enforce the acquisition of the desired land for the fulfillment of its promises. Then again, the world is running into a food recession and very few BEE recipients of land can farm; most productive farms that they were given deteriorated into chaotic bankruptcy; have caused soil retrogression and mayhem with regard to maintaining machinery etc. Point is that NOT ONE single productive farm existed in South Africa prior to the arrival of Europeans. Potential BEE farmers and the land they acquire (and I’m all for the capable ones being given a bash at real farming, rather them than me) is not the issue that has at its roots ‘who were here first’ but it is a matter of such projects being better managed than they are at present. It is general knowledge that the various government departments and institutions such as the Landbank, involved in this complicated process lacks the ‘capacity’ to oversee this crucial matter.

  30. mayibongwe tembe says:

    u guyz ar crazier than my85 year old,uneducated granpa

  31. Read below speech by botha( these people undermine us)
    QUOTE
    THE FOLLOWING is a speech made by former South African President P.W. Botha to his Cabinet. This reprint was written by David G. Mailu for the Sunday Times, a South African newspaper, dated August 18, 1985.

    “Pretoria has been made by the White mind for the White man. We are not obliged even the least to try to prove to anybody and to the Blacks that we are superior people. We have demonstrated that to the Blacks in a thousand and one ways. The Republic of South Africa that we know of today has not been created by wishful thinking. We have created it at the expense of intelligence, sweat and blood. Were they Afrikaners who tried to eliminate the Australian Aborigines? Are they Afrikaners who discriminate against Blacks and call them Nigge*rs in the States? Were they Afrikaners who started the slave trade? Where is the Black man appreciated? England discriminates against its Black and their “Sus” law is out to discipline the Blacks. Canada, France, Russia, and Japan all play their discrimination too. Why in the hell then is so much noise made about us? Why are they biased against us? I am simply trying to prove to you all that there is nothing unusual we are doing that the so called civilized worlds are not doing. We are simply an honest people who have come out aloud with a clear philosophy of how we want to live our own White life.

    We do not pretend like other Whites that we like Blacks. The fact that, Blacks look like human beings and act like human beings do not necessarily make them sensible human beings. Hedgehogs are not porcupines and lizards are not crocodiles simply because they look alike. If God wanted us to be equal to the Blacks, he would have created> us all of a uniform colour and intellect. But he created us differently: Whites, Blacks, Yellow, Rulers and the ruled. Intellectually, we are superior to the Blacks; that has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt over the years. I believe that the Afrikaner is an honest, God fearing person, who has demonstrated practically the right way of being. Nevertheless, it is comforting to know that behind the scenes, Europe, America, Canada, Australia-and all others are behind us in spite of what they say. For diplomatic relations, we all know what language should be used and where. To prove my point, Comrades, does anyone of you know a White country without an investment or interest in South Africa? Who buys our gold? Who buys our diamonds? Who trades with us? Who is helping us develop other nuclear weapon? The very truth is that we are their people and they are our people. It’s a big secret. The strength of our economy is backed by America, Britain, Germany. It is our strong conviction, therefore, that the Black is the raw material for the White man. So Brothers and Sisters, let us join hands together to fight against this Black devil. I appeal to all Afrikaners to come out with any creative means of fighting this war. Surely God cannot forsake his own people whom we are. By now every one of us has seen it practically that the Blacks cannot rule themselves. Give them guns and they will kill each other. They are good in nothing else but making noise, dancing, marrying
    many wives and indulging in sex. Let us all accept that the Black man is the symbol of poverty, mental inferiority, laziness and emotional incompetence. Isn’t it plausible? therefore that the White man is created to rule the Black man? Come to think of what would happen one day if you woke up and on the throne sat a Kaff*ir! Can you imagine what would happen to our women? Does anyone of you believe that the Blacks can rule this country?

    Hence, we have good reasons to let them all-the Mandelas-rot in prison, and I think we should be commended for having kept them alive in spite of what we have at hand with which to finish them off. I wish to announce a number of new strategies that should be put to use to destroy this Black bug. We should now make use of the chemical weapon. Priority number one, we should not by all means allow any more increases of the Black population lest we be choked very soon. I have exciting news that our scientists have come with an efficient stuff. I am sending out more
    researchers to the field to identify as many venues as possible where the chemical weapons could be employed to combat any further population increases. The hospital is a very strategic opening, for example and should be fully utilized. The food supply channel should be used. We have enveloped excellent slow killing poisons and fertility destroyers. Our only fear is in case such stuff came in! ! to their hands as they are bound to start using it against us if you care to think of the many Blacks working for us in our homes.

    However, we are doing the best we can to make sure that the stuff remains strictly in our hands. Secondly, most Blacks are vulnerable to money inducements. I have set aside a special fund to exploit this venue. The old trick of divide and rule is still very valid today. Our experts should work day and night to set the Black man against his fellowman. His inferior sense of morals can be exploited beautifully. And here is a creature that lacks foresight. There is a need for us to combat him in long term projections that he cannot suspect. The average Black does not plan his life beyond a year: that stance, for example, should be exploited. My special department is already working round the clock to come out with a long-term operation blueprint. I am also sending a special request to all Afrikaner mothers to double their birth rate. It may be necessary too to set up a population boom industry by putting up centers where we employ and support fully White
    young men and women to produce children for the nation. We are also investigating the merit of uterus rentals as a possible means of speeding up the growth of our population through surrogate mothers.

    For the time being, we should also engage a higher gear to make sure that Black men are separated from their women and fines imposed upon married wives who bear illegitimate children.

    I have a committee working on finding better methods of inciting Blacks against each other and encouraging murders among themselves. Murder cases among Blacks should bear very little punishment in order to encourage them.

    My scientists have come up with a drug that could be smuggled into their brews to effect slow poisoning results and fertility destruction. Working through drinks and manufacturing of soft drinks geared to the Blacks, could promote the channels of reducing their population. Ours is not a war that we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to effect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective.

    As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity. Our Sex Mercenary Squad should go out and camouflage with Apartheid Fighters while doing their operations quietly administering slow killing poison and fertility destroyers to those Blacks they thus befriend.
    We are modifying the Sex Mercenary Squad by introducing White men who should go for the militant Black woman and any other vulnerable Black woman. We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America who are desperate and too keen to take up the appointments.

    My latest appeal is that the maternity hospital operations should be intensified. We are not paying those people to help bring Black babies to this world but to eliminate them on the very delivery moment. If this department worked very efficiently, a great deal could be achieved.

  32. I have only seen this unelected politician make one solitary speech as a cabinet minister during the almost three years since he was appointed by Zuma and it looks as if it will be his farewell speech. To me he is just another waffling useless politician in South Africa who is trying to justify his exhorbitant salary and out of this world massive tax free perks.

  33. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ mayibongwe – thanks

  34. Has Mayibongwe anything constructive to offer to this discourse? Calling your debating opponents crazy does not win any points. Your disrespect towards your grandmother does not seem to sit well with me, nor I suspect, many of the senior members of the various Black African communities. Your grandmother’s uneducated condition should not be brought into this – unless it is used to criticise apartheid – which I would accept. Please let’s try to be helpful to one another trying to find a way forward – nothing is gained by being abusive.

  35. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Unfortunately mayibongwe’s comment, which SHOULD have referred to mxo, came as prescience rather than as an observation.
    @ mxo – do you seriously believe this sh*t you have written here? And if you truly DID get it from a 1985 newspaper, can you really put any trust in the content? If such an article ever did appear in print it must surely have been on 1st April!!! And you (fool) seem to believe it.
    We seem to be back with sense and NONsense. And I believe we all know which is mxo (could it be mzu in disguise?)

  36. Note the events in front of the Land Claims Court today. The Kohisan are pissed off.

  37. mxo. Why don’t you go back to your skins and mud huts? After a while you might appreciate the whiteys.

  38. Everyone born and living on this continent has a clear knowledge that the land of this continent belongs to the Africans only. Pieter Mulder must not be fooled by the little political support he has in the Western Cape and claim the land in the Western and Northern Cape.

    He is prompting the nation to be divided on the land issue. If that land belongs to him and his kind, then why is he living on another man’s land in Gauteng? His assertion that black “Bantu-speaking” people have no historical claim to 40% of the country’s land smacks of racism.

    In his head, black people should not have land in the place of their birth. It is a shame and embarrassment to those who fought against apartheid. Mulders assertion reveals that he wants to revive apartheid, when black people could not claim land as their own and whites could have whatever they wanted. He is abusing his privileges to spit on the faces of black people and call them foreigners in their own land.

  39. umkhonzi ka Yesu says:

    LelikaNdikhoyo ihlabathi liphela, nako konk’ okukulo, which includes all of us throwing racist mud in each other’s faces.

  40. If the black posters on here are representative of black South Africans then I’m afraid they’re a REALLY stupid lot. It’s frightening just how backward and uninformed they are.

    @Mxo – it’s common knowledge that the piece you quoted is false black propaganda. Ever heard of something called “Google”?

    I’m an ex-Zimbabwean who lost a prosperous farm to the barbarians who managed to turn it into a dung heap in 2 months. Apart from the produce, hundreds of jobs were also lost. When it all started, we also had the same arguments SA’s have today and thought the talks of land grabs were just nonsense. What happened in Zim at one stage, was exactly what’s happening here now. I’m 100% sure SA is the next Zim – it will just be a lot bloodier. In Zim we didn’t have farm murders, necklacing etc. The Zim blacks are a lot more advanced, literate and civilised than SA blacks.

    Africa is no place for the white man. The blacks just can’t stand being faced with white prosperity every day as it constantly reminds them just how far back in the evolution race they are. And their only response is the usual one – violence and anarchy.

  41. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Is anyone (including umkhonzi ka Yesu) able to translate umkhonzi ka Yesu’s presumably erudite comment ? Otherwise many of us won’t what in h*ll s/he is on about!!!

  42. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    PS – insert “know” between ‘won’t’ and ‘what’

  43. umkhonzi ka Yesu says:

    umkhonzi ka Yesu means “servant of Jesus”. The post was the 1996 translation of Psm 24: 1 (Christian Bible) “The earth is the LORD’s and everything that is in it.” May my Xhosa reads please forgive the mistakes – I am a “settler” with citizenship of almost fifty years standing, doing his best to be a South African.

  44. umkhonzi ka Yesu says:

    Oops “reads” should be “readers”

  45. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    ukY thanks for the translation

  46. Mulder’s insulting remarks makes him highly unsuitable to serve in the government, especially as deputy minister of agric, forestry and fisheries. As deputy minister, he is not only expected to propagate the policies of the government he serves, but is also supposed to make sure that they succeed. Now, after what he said during the SOTND last week, he certainly can no longer be trusted to do so.

    First, land reform is not about dispossessing one ethnic group in order to give to another but about ensuring equitable distribution of an important resource to all the present inhabitants of the region. Perhaps Sir Mulder’s vision is still blinkered by apartheid mentality which sought to preserve all privilege only for pure whites. Second, the Bantu never practiced segregation and readily intergrated with existing inhabitants of the land such that a large portion of people called Bantu today are a mixture of the original Bantu and the Khoisan and San. In contrast, whites did not even allow their own offspring, the coloureds, to be integrated into their midst. In fact, they grouped their offspring together with the Bantu and other non-whites in a system that was designed to preserve and allocate privilege to so-called pure whites.

    Third, the current system where 5% of the population own 90% of the resources is unsustainable, regardless of the racial racial composition of the “classes”. Class disparity has always been a recipe for violent revolution. Perhaps Sir M should familiarise himself with the French and Bolshevik revolutions and subsequently inform us what relevance race played in those.

    Fourth, the current unfair disparities were brought about by evil-violent, abusive and oppressive racial discrimination. Therefore, it is impossible to avoid race when talking about correcting them. The reason why land has to be re-distributed is not because they are whites but because the racist, apartheid system took violently from all others and gave only to them. The race issue was created by apartheid and its architects, not by those who are trying to correct its effects. Can Sir M carefully go back to his history books and tell us what apartheid system the Bantu implemented when they migrated to the region.

    Fifth, both the Bantu and the non-Bantu were victims of racism. Perhaps Sir M needs to be reminded of the fate of the Nama(non-Bantu) and Herero (Bantu) peoples under Lothar Von Trotha’s onslaught for him to see that racism targeted all non-whites. Therefore it is totally incorrect to characterise land reform only in terms of the Bantu taking from whites.

    Sixth, the current land reform effort is not expressly for the benefit of the Bantu but for all the victim groups. All victims of racism are supposed to benefit. The fact that the majority have Bantu blood is irrelevant. Even the Chinese are considered disadvantage.

  47. PS-Inset “d” at end of word, disadvantage!

  48. Lets cut out all the mud slinging and I quote what Doug Casey a leading economist in the USA has to say about SA: Doug: Yes. In spite of that wealth, both in terms of one of the single richest natural resource endowments in the world, and one of the highest per capita GDPs in Africa, I have to say I don’t think the place is safe for investors – and it’s getting worse by the day. We do not invest in any South Africa plays – not for ideological reasons, like those who opposed apartheid – but because of the country risk. The people running the show are not just thieves; they are so hostile to enterprise, they’ve taken the place from producing over 60% of the world’s supply of gold a couple decades ago to less than 12% of world gold production today. There’s a high risk of nationalization in the country, if not force majeure in the form of violent chaos. South Africa is a powder keg with a lit fuse of unknown length – but it’s lit. I have lots of friends and relatives there and things seem mellow at the moment, especially in Capetown, which is one of the prettiest p laces on the planet. Then again, the whole world is at the edge of a financial precipice at the moment – Strange that Doug would rather invest in the countries north of us than in our country

  49. umkhonzi ka Yesu says:

    The “earth is the LORD’s” bit is, of course, metaphorical; and human land ownership is both a privilege and a responsibility. The landgrabbers in Zimbabwe don’t appear to have taken their responsibility very seriously. Whether we believe in God or not, most of us will acknowledge the authority of a higher power, even if it is only the physical world itself. I think we get a better perspective when we realise that we are tenants fighting as though we were owners.

  50. What an excellent article Wonkie – think you’ve hit the nail on the head in terms of the issue. I also believe that South Africans on either side of the spectrum blow things out of proportion which prevents us truly moving forward as one nation.

  51. Well said, “Jesu”

  52. @mabang, whites are paying every day for what the apartheid government did, they are either paying more tax or buying airline tickets out of here. What else do you want them to do; leave a desolate wasteland to people who do not know how to use the land. How far back do we go historically, the apartheid government sold a lie to the people by claiming that blacks only came into South Africa when whites arrived in the Cape. Blacks were all over SA but many were nomadic and other followed the summer to the western cape returning to their valleys in the winter. Title deeds did not exist but they still had a right on the land. Archaeology shows that blacks were here many millennia ago. For instance Mapungubwe was an African kingdom in at least the 13th Century. The Nats kept it secret because it exposed their lie..
    Land reform us necessary but the ANC have fucked it up beyond belief. It bis doubtful if they can resolve the issues now.

  53. Pieter Mulder is most probably descended from French Huguenots and settlers from Holland and Flanders. Although his forefathers landed here 350 years ago as peasants to produce food for merchant ships passing on their way to India, Mulder is still very much a European in Africa. He should learn to behave himself in a way befitting a politician leader, depending on weather FF Plus is a political party or a congregation of racists.

    His recent comments show he is a deluded and unrepentant racist. Land distribution is a serious and sensetive subject for all the inhabitants of SA and we don’t need speeches like his from a Westener disguising himself as an African. We know through unbiased literature and oral history that Europeans used guns and tax laws to force Africans onto the land and into servitude. I call on the honourable Mulder to retract his statement and apologise to all Africans in SA for undermining them.

    But then again, as SA’s non-racial democracy deepens, the right wing continue to shrink. There can be no denying that it remains an important constituency for career politicians like Mulder who want to secure a seat in the Nationak Assembly. It’s slow death, however, has not made the right wing less confident of itself. Over the years, in its various forms, the right wing has become emboldened – publicly making points it would not dare propagate just a decade ago.

    Back then, the moral high ground belonged to centrist and centre-left political parties-especially those who led the liberation struggle against apartheid. But corruption scandals, political infighting and service delivery failures are slowly eroding this moral high ground. So much so that even rabid right wingers are beginning to believe that the current system has become so discredited that hankering for the past would find sympathy with growing numbers of South Africans. Of course it won’t!

    But the more those in power stumble from one crisis to the next, and allow the most racially polarising voices within their ranks to make the loudest noises, the more the likes of Mulder would find justification for spewing their destructive propaganda. Strong political leadership from the centre is what this country requires.

  54. Correction-” in a way befitting a political leader”

  55. Africa for African. i am asking myself what is the motive behind Mr Mulder speech. its like the history it is about to repeat itself. I think he must do a proper research of why the continent has the name Africa. not occupying the rest of the country does not mean we don’t own the rest of it.

  56. The Romans called it Africa and the name stuck. And who is an African? Is it not someone who chooses to live in the land of their birth.. I want a small holding in the Midlands, near Richmond will do. Why am I waiting?

  57. @mxo, get real and stop copying the ridiculous statements of the old apartheid regime.

  58. Racial integration, social unity and harmony in Mzansi can never happen automatically without all racial groups showing an effort, especially the Afrikaners. And Peter Mulder’s statements on the land issue are not only unfortunate, but reckless and not advancing any reconciliation attempts in the country.

    If Mulder had uttered such careless words in any other African country, he would have been deported or disappeared without a trace. His insensitive behaviour will lead to a belief by many Afrikaners that apartheid was a better system to oppress black people.

  59. @piedpyper. Why blame the Afrikaners, Have you seen other ethnic groups show any effort. What we do see is an attitude of entitlement grab and grab grab by all concerned. Especially the cadre deployees.

  60. Mixo, your’e mixed up. Speeches at cabinet meetings are never, and this applies to the ANC as well, made public. If this country regresses even further into mayhem, it would be the result of people such as you who publish rubbish. The most serious allegation relating chemical indulgence in Mr Botha’s war against the unrests that were rife during his time in the office, had been Dr Basson’s efforts (on instruction) to develop a drug that would have a calming (pacifying) effect on masses frenzied by agents of chaos. That drug is presently popular as a stamina booster at night clubs and other sleazy joints of carnal pleasure. I have never been a fan of the late Pres. Botha, but I served as adviser at many (covert) meetings where matters of governmental strategy have been the topic. Remember that there were many cabinet ministers, some who might as well have been the President and who actually controlled the President, who attended cabinet meetings, but would never have tolerated speech such as Mixo implied Pres, Botha made.

  61. typical black mentality; as it was in the past, they will sell something and return at night to steal it back! The reason why apartheid was needed to keep savages apart from the rest. Every square millimeter of land belonging to whites have been bought from some black idiot in the past. The crimminal minded black idiot who also sold his own people as slaves to the english speaking americans and other englishspeakers of this world, had it in mind to return at night to kill the whites who PAID for the land and take it back…however, the black idiots found that it’s not that easy to push over a white superior! ( a lesson the fouth grades out of the white race, the englishspeakers of this world, also had to learn the hard way!)

  62. Jesu, if you and other idiots, who blindly follow the house of windsor and its free masson idiots think black and white can form one nation, I have to tell you that you can’t think at all. We were never intended by the ceator to be one nation..the reason why whites have it all and the rest have…well, well what does the others acually have worth mentioning? ( no lawyers, definately no lawyers, only bold black bottles from….)

  63. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Well, well, well. It looks like Mzu has finally returned to the gathering – but wait – something is wrong – Mzu was always chanting the greatness of the black people and taking the land back from the white thieves and now this re-incarnation is saying that the black men are the thieves and the white men (except for the English and (I presume he means) the Freemasons) are the natural inheritors of the earth and all that is in it.
    What a mirror image! – or is it a photographic negative?
    Whatever – with this new Donald Duck in the blog who needs Mzu – one racist BIGOT is MORE than enough!

  64. @garth. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was meant to bring together all those who were involved in perpetrating the horrors of apartheid against the innocent and dissenting voices to apologise-but people like Mulder and his congregation of racists, chose to ignore this. No wonder, he is still using a phrase like-”Bantu”

    The problem is, Mulder is not alone in this fairy-tale. He speaks for a few million white South Africans who actually believe this stupid nonsense, even if most will never risk saying this in public. So, instead of seizing on this opportunity as a teachable moment for a next generation of especially Afrikaner youth, our apoplectics got in the way-with Mulder and his motley crew no doubt high -fiving each other behind closed doors inside the very parliamentary buildings they once denied the majority.

    In fact, signs that Mulder does not deserve to be in the government have been clear for a while, the rest of us just chose to ignore them. Towards the end of last year, the Sunday Times reported that Mulder and Agriculture Minister Tina Joemat-Pettersson were at loggerheads over the formers blatant refusal to attend functions at which he was supposed to propagate government policies on land reform and agriculture. When he did go, he often contradicted the policies of the government he serves.

    He told the newspapers that, he had made it clear to Zuma that he would not be endorsing policies that go against the Freedom Front Plu’s beliefs. JZ should have withdrawn his invitation for him to join the government at that point. But JZ had other considerations.

    Zuma was well aware, as he assumed office, that he did not enjoy much confidence among minority groups-especially white citizens. By roping in Mulder he hoped to send a message to these communities that his would be an “inclusive” government that would continue with the nation-building drive of the Nelson Mandela years. But, as last years local government elections demonstrated, these constituencies never bought into this.

    The ANC lost the few votes it had in these communities and the FF Plus was punished, with many of it’s traditinal voters backing the DA and independent candidates. There is clearly no reason for Zuma to hold on to this man now. And by leaving the government Mulder may still be able to win back those voters with right-wing leanings who dumped his party last year because they felt that he had sold out to the black government. It was this very same constituency that Mulder was trying to impress when he made his offensive remarks.

    And yes, his outrageous reading of history that ignores a European settlement penetrating foreign land could easily make the blood of a black nationalist boil.

  65. a-maize-ingly-corny , you are the new one around here, not me – you must be black or an englishspeaker as these are the two groups who ALWAYS have things the wrong way round.
    Piedpyper, to deny the majority parlaiment, was a good thing…we all know that the majority are also the brainless and the “einsteins” are found between the very smallest part of the minority! So how the hell people like you expect the majority to come up with the answers to the questions of life, I would like to know….will you please erxplain to us how you arrived at that typical english viewpoint?

  66. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Me? New? You must be quackers!
    We have had a truly GOOFY contributor before but DONALD DUCK has never before been seen to lay his (yes – HIS!!!) eggs here.
    As to whether I am black or an English speaker (please note that the name of a language always has an upper case letter to start it) – who knows – perhaps I am both or, again, perhaps neither.
    What IS obvious is that YOU are a so-called “white” and that you are Huguenot, Belgian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Polish, Albanian, Hungarian, Russian, Slavic, Afrikaans, Swiss, Scandinavian or some other kind of FOREIGNER who uses English as a second or other language.
    At least you have not denied being a racist BIGOT!!!
    Ah! yes – you’re a NAZI !!!

  67. @ Dirk

    how I missed you

  68. @ amazingly corny,

    you must be joking, you are the new one here, find out the history of wonkie bloggers.

  69. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Manthata – define “new” as used in your comment.

  70. @Dirk-First and foremost, i am relieved that you resides in a beautiful country where human rights are vehemently protected by our constitution. This critical protocol, incidentally, was accomplished because the majority of our people, both black and white, sacrificed so much, including their lives, for ignorant people like you to be able to expose their lunacy, insensitivity and political illiteracy for all to see.

    But i believe that you are a living example and an unashamed symptom of the side effects of how an institutionalised system of racial oppression and discrimination has had on all of us. In other words, you simply displays and represents a number of people who failed to heal, as they continue to suffer from the stereotypical mentality that racial disharmony was designed to achieve in the first place.

    What is happening is similar to the pathetic story of a chained elephant. Even when the chains have been removed, it still circles within its restricted area despite the fact that other elephants and dogs are roaming around freely and seem to be enjoying their newly found freedoms.

    So, i’m not about to raise a sweat or be tempted to swear and belittle an inconsequentially self-defeatist man, who seemingly refuses to allow his prejudiced thinking and stinking attitude to be voluntarily cleansed. Further, a man who simply seeks to selfishly draw unfair attention at the expense of South Africans who are genuinely traumatised by the horrible effects of violent crime.

    I suppose individuals such as you, are desparately in need of emotional and psychological redemption, because it is unhealthy for a man of your calibre to disglay a mental reasoning capacity that seems smaller than that of a nut. Most probably, you are a descendend from French Huguenots and settlers from Holland just like your oupa or shall i say your uncle Mulder? As reformed South Africans, who have in a way or another experienced the same prejudicial outlook on life, we are collectively obliged to offer our empathy to your attitudinal ineptness. I sincerely hope you will open your eyes to see all obstacles in your way. Fortunately, racial prejudice, unlike HIV, is curable.

    I urge you to seek some form of divine intervention not only for yourself but those who belong to your chained and restricted school of thought. Most importantly, i think that you must accept and forgive yourself for being so naive as to fall into the trap of those who wish to limit our mental and psychological prowess by making us believe that we are greater or less than others. Good luck Dirkie.

  71. Be grateful a-maize-ingly-corny is one of the few voices of reason on Wonkie. (with the exception of me)

  72. @ a-maize-ingly-corny
    This duck is the one producing Golden eggs…you obviously don’t have an eye for gold…if I was new, how come my friend mantat said that he missed me?
    @ garth…you made a strong point with your last post ;-)
    Piedpiper, a constitution in a place as corrupt as this New ZA is worthless! Around here , nothing works because of corruption…you just pay the officila of rthe state 50 bucks and he becomes instantly blind…to hell with the human rights! Furthermore, piper, the ANC was established because of the english speaker’s apartheid law…thet were in power here then..you, can’t even put the facts that you already know together and get to the right answer..those verery englishspeaker wich you, fool, now regard as “gentlemen” while in fact, they were the opressors! Verwoerd send the english to hell and within just a few years, that very same NP that you hate so much, moved away from apartheid! You have been lead by your nose, like most blacks by those very englishspeakers who are actuyally planning to opress the rest of the world with their cunning lies while giving everybody their long-teet grins, pretending to be so lovable…tghey are a bunch of yellow ass cowards, the lowest kind of human being you can get! Now englishspeakers include all the english speaking nations..they all think alike because they all follow the house of windsor and do and think whatever they belive to be “the english way”..tsk tsk.. but strange, they also all believe that they are “free thinkers”..what a laugh! Oh, talkin violent crime…we all know who the savages are that commit them! You mention disease…well there is no medication for a low IQ…and souds like you believe the majority have all the answers and MUST be RIGHT…well that is exactly the type of though found by the low IQ majority..think of it…how regularly do you find an “einstein”? Hope you have what it takes to figure this pouint out..
    @Mantata, I missed you too pal! :-)

  73. Why argue with black people about matters they don’t comprehend but approach solely with raw, primitive emotion? No, we (rational people of all races)should really get together and determine how we could save our beloved land in the face of a typically African moral environment.

  74. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Dirk …”there is no medication for a low IQ” – you are the living proof.

    I said that Dirk must be a Nazi and ‘Lo! and behold!’ he spouts a diatribe of falsehood that would have made Joseph Goebbels proud.

    After the DUTCH settled at ‘Die Kaap van Goede Hoop’ and introduced slavery to South Africa by importing East Indies slaves and then enslaving local peoples, the English came and, eventually, overcame the Dutch in terms of governing the land. The English, following the lead of the British Parliament, outlawed slavery in South Africa.
    Later, when the “Afrikaners” came back into power, slavery was no longer a viable option so, to keep themselves “pure” (having already created the new class of people known as “coloured”) they (the AFRIKANERS) introduced the various draconian laws which, as a whole, we call the “Apartheid” system.
    “and within just a few years, that very same NP that you hate so much, moved away from apartheid!” By “just a few” I presume you mean FORTY as it took that long between the set up of the system and F W de Klerk’s famous speech which led to the release of Mandela (and others) and then to the CODESSA talks and democratic elections.
    Sadly, it took 40 years of opprobrium and sanctions before the “englishspeakers” (Yes! we know that Dirk thinks there are only three kinds of people in this world, the [pure] Afrikaners, the “englishspeakers” and the ka***rs) – i.e. the majority of the world were able to make the South African government of the day see sense.
    From time before the Apartheid system was instituted in South Africa (must I again say by the Afrikaner government?) the British Empire, as it still was, was being guided into self-governance and independence. First in India and Pakistan in 1948. In Africa, first in Ghana in 1956, and gradually all the other African states of the Empire – now re-named the Commonwealth – during the next dozen or so years, the notable exception being Rhodesia which had rebelled against the proposed independence with a majority government and proclaimed UDI with the full backing of the Afrikaner government of South Africa. And what a mess that created.

    In short, none of your assertions is borne out by historical fact. They are a pathetic copy of the efforts of Joseph Goebbels whose propaganda for the Nazis was of a far superior (if nonsensical) quality than yours.

    The “Golden eggs” that you produce are surely iron pyrites (“fool’s gold”).

    The only reason I can see for you and Manthata, whose name you seem unable to spell, having missed each other is that your marksmanship is as bad as your knowledge of history.

  75. @ a-maize-ingly-corny
    You must be some kind of englishspeaker freemason idiot to believe this typical african chaos is making sense! Fact is, NONE of the african countries governed by ka***rs (to use your spelling) is making any sense..this whole continent is in total chaos and that is exactly what the englishspeaker freemasons and illuminati want…they hope that rthe moron queen’s “new world order” will be excepted as “God’s 1000 years peace reign” ( a false christian teaching also created by the moron illuminati/free masons )on earth! Shame, but God said that when they say “peace, peace

  76. @ a-maize-ingly-corny ( this website seems to be typical african as my post was posted before finnishing! ) any way, let me continue…when they say “peace and safety! a sudden destruction will come upon them suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape” ( 1 Thess 5:3 NASV )…but then again, the englishspeakers of this world is just as heathen as africa – the reason why they feel so at home with one another! Also are these people in competition to see who could be the biggest morons! Fact is, all mulder’s staements are based on true historic facts, YO are the one talking typicaol englishspeaker/african shit around here!

  77. @ a-maize-ingly-corny , I just realized how you talked yourself into a corner…if the hollandersm found locals her to enslave, thet would not need to bring eat indies here! Mulder was therefore right with ALL his statements…kaas dit en geniet dit, maar ek dink elk geval jy is te onosel om te snap wat jy gese het…cheers!

  78. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    Yup ! Goebbels propaganda lives on
    Goebbels and the Nazis hated the English as well as the Jews
    Goebbels and the Nazis hated Freemasons and hunted them down and threw them into concentration camps
    Goebbels and the Nazis wanted to create a “new world order” that they called the Third Reich that would “last for a thousand years”
    We all know that the Devil can also quote scripture to serve his own ends and, like the Devil, you quote only that part which suits what you would say. The fuller quote, putting yours in context, is not one of doom and gloom but one of hope and cheer: “…the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.While they are saying, ‘All is peaceful, all secure,’ destruction is upon them, sudden as the pangs that come on a woman in childbirth; and there will be no escape. But you, friends, are not in the dark; the day will not come upon you like a thief. You are all children of light, children of day. …” (1 Thess 5:2-5 REB)
    Your comment seems to imply that your quote refers to “englishspeakers/freemasons” and perhaps you are right when the whole quote is taken into account.
    But, like Goebbels (and Satan) you only choose the bits that suit you.

    As to your last comment, the “hollanders” (I presume you mean Hollanders because I have never heard of any people called “hollandersm”) brought their Javanese slaves with them when they first arrived. They imported more so that they could continue “the good life” whilst they captured and trained the locals as slaves.
    Obviously the brain that God originally gave you has been addled by all of the Goebbels shit that you have used as a nutritious diet, for basic logic has departed from you thinking and you are being led by the nose by those who believed they are the “descendants of the chosen people” – they don’t say ‘descendants of the Jewish people’ because they wanted to exterminate all Jews.
    Finally I am not so stupid as to not know that “onosel” is spelled with a double ‘n’ – onnosel – like you.

  79. a-maizingly- corny is as befuddled as Dirk is. I read Dirk’s (very poorly written) comment with contempt, but did not reply because I knew it would serve no purpose. As a proud Afrikanert, I was most embarrassed by Dirk’s cras critique on Enghlish-speaking (‘englishspeaker’ according to Dirk) fellow South Africans who did much damage and much good to our beloved country; but so did Dirk’s (also my) side of the ethnic devide. a-mazingly-corny, you’re so right in all you said, but remember that after slavery was outlawed in 1820/5, (+- 106 years) until Union in 1910, many places in the RSA, including the Eastern Cape and Natal was never under Afrikaner control, yet apartheid was strictly; even more so than in Transvaal and the Freestate, practiced in those areas by the whites of British decend who had chargre of those areas. I had a discussion with General Bantu Holomisa in Umtata on this very same subject during 1989, and he admitted that the “Boere” treated black people in the areas where they had (a degree) of control, much better than black people were treated in areaas controled by predominantly English-speaking white people.

    A-Maizing how we whites figt among each other when it had long since become time to form a united front with right thinking pepole of other etnic groups included. Don’t wake up too late; and leave the past alone; we have to work om the now and the future!

  80. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Paul – not quite so befuddled, I think, as you say that “you’re so right in all you said”.
    Be that as it may, my comment was not intended as a defence of the British colonisation of South Africa (nor of Africa as a whole) and different people have had different reactions to the different colonial masters throughout the world. Most of the time the reactions were to the people placed “in charge” of (comparatively) small areas, some of whom (in most cultures) were very good and uplifting of the communities they governed as others were egotistical self-serving “masters” of all they surveyed.
    How you “whites” ‘figt’ amongst yourselves is not so important to me but your last sentiment – “we have to work om the now and the future!” – most definitely is!

  81. I say we should let the blacks have the land without compensation’ all of it, just pay out the farmers for the improvements and their implements and then in ten or 20 years when the land is buggered up, overgrazed and all the topsoil is gone then the whites can buy it back at fire sale prices. Without training, without education, without financial support, without technical support that is what will happen. The department responsible for land distribution is broke and cant afford any reliable distribution of land. All (or most) 0of the white farmers are in debt,aybe destruction of the economy is the way to go. We cn spend the next 300 years trying to possibly fix it.

  82. Those who forget the lesson of history are condemned to repeat it.

  83. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Paul – coming back to how amazing it is that “whites” in South Africa fight amongst themselves, I would have to say that the colonising English brought this problem on the heads of the more modern “white” South Africans.
    From the time that Cecil John Rhodes and his cohorts (eg Jamieson) became the controlling force in the “Cape Colony”, the “English” treated the “Dutch” almost with contempt, thus alienating a huge minority. This naturally led, in due time, to the Anglo-Boer wars, which, in turn, fed the ethnic divide. So, Yes, the colonising “English” have to bear much of the blame for the animosities, but are we “modern men” not mature enough to see that all South Africans need to work together in peace (and, hopefully, harmony) to bring this country back to being the powerhouse it used to be?
    The animosities of the past have no place in a culture of building – whether it be building of trust, or of skills, or of infrastructure – are we not a more mature society than those who indulge in “blood feuds”?

  84. Since 1994, people like Dirk have always thought of themselves as victims of some sought without no reason at all, and like i’ve said before, racial prejudice, unlike HIV, is curable. Dirk, I suggest you emancipate yourself from apartheid mental slavery and evil thoughts that seems to have build mansions in your brains. Such stupid illiterate racist remarks, and the outrageous reading of history wo’nt build but break SA. Thank God you just nailed your stupid career in the coffin not that you have talent anyway.

    If you potray yourself as an ambassador, or a spokesperson for some stupid racists Afrikaners like you, remember, you are not representing the African Afrikaners. You are disappointing, disgusting would be a gross understatement!

    Back then, there is solid archaeological, linguistic, and genetic evidence that Africans populated what became SA hundreds of years, perhaps 1000 years or more, before Jan Van Riebeeck and his crew arrived in 1652. For example, Nigel Worden, in the fifth edition of his The Making of Modern SA, addresses this claim and refers to African arrivals 10 000 years ago (hunters and gatherers), 2 000 to 3 000 years ago (herders), and 1 000 BC to 200 AD (pastoralists).

    From William Beinhart to Chris Ehret to Cavalli-Sforza, the notion of European settlers arriving in vacant space, before or at the same time as Africans, would today be regarded as a figment of colonial imagination. If the historical evidence was too much to hold the attention of dozy parliamentarians, JZ could perhaps have appealed to common sense when responding to the reckless statement that Mulder uttered. “Come, Pieter, take a drive with me through Stellebosch, Paarl, Franschhoek and Steenberg Estates and convince me that simply through duty and dedication, whites secured these most fertile lands, while blacks just happened to find themselves locked inside the tin shacks of Nyanga and those heated ovens called ‘flats’ in Lavender Hill.” The Prez might pause at this stage and ask the obvious: “Are you, saying Pieter, that there were no land acts, no forced removals, no white preference areas to your advantage? So what Pieter? We are here now, together, having to work out how to live on and work the land together. We have to require fairness in land distribution to correct historical wrongs even as we do this in a way that wins the participation of our white brothers and sisters. If we fail to do this, Pieter, meeting the demands of justice and the ideal of inclusiveness, we are all dead. Is that what you want Pieter?”

    Instead of reasoned debate and factual correction, Mulder got what he wanted-an angry, inflammatory response. What tens of thousands of watching youth did not get in this exchange was a vital account of history they would also escape in the classroom.

  85. Corny, i must say it’s an interesting comment you’ve made in your last post!

  86. Science believe that africa is “the cradle of human kind” and if they have it right, it means ALL NATIONS originate from africa and if that is true, black africans have no claim to africa, it belongs to ALL the world’s nations. Black Africans believe that a people have the right to return to the graves of their ancestors….now what do you clever johnies have to say about this? Why should we Afrikaners have to just GIVE what we legally bought (paying with cattle) from the blacks?

  87. a-maize-ingly-corny says:

    @ Dirk – assume that the scientists got it right and Africa is the cradle of humankind. Assume also that the biochemists got it right and that all nations and peoples can ultimately be traced back to a single female (through the mitochondrial DNA). Assume also that the historians got it right and that people migrated from Africa tens of thousands of years ago and eventually migrated to all the earth’s land masses and settled on those land masses and developed better hunting and gathering skills, discovered how to make fire instead of waiting for a thunderstorm to “bring the gift of fire from the Gods”, acclimatised to their new environment, developed different bodily characteristics more suited to their new habitat, developed, in differing parts of the world, different methods of oral and written communication, and, of course, developed at different rates both in terms of ‘civilisation’ and methods of practicing warfare. All these factors divided humanity into different tribes and different ethnic groups.
    I think that, so far, we are on the same page.
    Now, this is where I believe we will differ:
    You say that you are an Afrikaner. I assume (rightly or wrongly) that you consider yourself “white”. That being so, your ancestors between four and six hundred generations back migrated to NorthWestern Europe away from the “overcrowding” of the mother continent and developed their lighter skin tone, etc. In doing so they ABANDONED the land of their origin, thus GIVING up any so-called rights to return.
    Now to muddy the waters a little, add to all of that the concept of conquest and dominion – or “might is right” and the “old” concept of communal stewardship of the land God gave gets thrown out of the window. Now the rights of “the Gods” have been usurped by the strong among humankind and the weaker peoples become subjugated by the invading stronger peoples – repeated time and again throughout History – until we become a world with more ethical enlightenment (or so we think).
    The ‘enlightened’ people of the world now abhor war and violence and prefer non-violent discussion and negotiation to arrive at what the majority will see as a just and equitable solution.
    This was what we believed we had done in South Africa with the CODESSA agreements and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
    In this long and meandering way, I am trying to point out to you that you cannot give something up and then demand that it be returned to you millennia later. If you were to give your son a car for his eighteenth birthday, you couldn’t demand its return when he turns thirty-eight! – no matter how well he has conserved it.
    Let us not get into the “purchase” of land in southern Africa – we all know that it was legalized stealing – a few brightly coloured beads and a FEW head of cattle can never be recompense for the “property” of “the Gods”.
    Accept the facts as they are:
    We live in a country where every adult has an equal voice (even if not equally intelligent).
    We live in a country that has seen blatant theft from the people found here by the various groups of “settlers”.
    We live in a country where the powers-that-be are trying (without, one must admit, a great deal of success) to redress the wrongs of the past.
    So – dig yourself out of the hole of ignorance and join the mainstream of co-operation for the good of the country and ALL its inhabitants – whether they have lived here for 20 years, 400 years, or 20 000 years.
    South Africa lives in the present – so should you.

  88. There is sufficient proof that blacks inhabited all of South Africa before the first white put foot on our shores. The Apartheid Government taught otherwise. So well did they do’ that most South Africans believe the lie they were told. Some years before the Dutch settlement. both British and Portuguese had tried to settle the Cape. But unfortunately they arrived in summer and the land was full of Nomadic peoples (mainly Xhosa but also San.) The Dutch arrived in Autumn and most (not all) nomads had returned home. Also during the time of Shaka he had decimated some 2 million Sotho, and chased most of the others into the mountains leaving the land empty for the voortrekkers, that they left the Cape because of English persecution is the third lie, there was no significant English Settlement in the Western Cape, most of it was in the Eastern Cape. That is the third Lie. The other big lie is that the British won an outright victory over the Boers. Undoubtedly they did, but in London some cooler heads prevailed, some there knew that they could never assemble enough Britain’s to colonize their new territory but they knew then was already a significant white presence in the country. Namely the Afrikaners, the British then sought a peace with them, the Boer commandos kept fighting after the defeat to preserve their people from genocide. This is another lie. Most of the whites particularly if they are of Afrikaans descent have some slave origins therefore not all whites are white. Another Lie. During Apartheid and the introduction of the pass laws, Many blacks went to the Cape and passed themselves off as Coloured. We cannot be anything but a Rainbow Nation. The question of Land redistribution is messed up by the politicians and the department responsible is a total mess, so much so that land redistribution in our lifetimes is but a dream.

  89. 1. a-maze-ingly-corny,
    I think , as you do, that Dirk suffers unfounded aversities, but damnit
    a-maizinly-corny, how can you write such a long reply on the vague
    assumptions pertaining to demography and Africa being the cradle of mankind etc.

    Fact regarding ancient methods of trade points an accusing finger at us
    (and others). In today’s terms beads, mirrors and whatever else, have
    little vakue, but to the Khoi, at that time, it was precious. That form of
    business however, was practiced in the Cape only, and you cannot mahe it
    applicable to how land was acquired in the rest of South Africa.
    As for theft, look around you my friend, it is worse now than it had ever
    been.
    Paulmichiel

    2. a-maze-inly corny,
    I thought we disagreed on too many levels of this multi-facetted problem to
    ever agree wholeheartedly on this most contentious subject, but I see hope
    for all of us if we would heed of the errors of the past with a view not to
    repeat it; take hands and put shoulders to the wheel ( (a barbarism borrowed from an Afrikaans proverb).

    3. Garth,
    I hate to agree with you, but you’r oh so ominously right, except that a
    country, and especially arable land, could be irreparably damaged. Blacks
    have never worked land on any but subsistence scale. It is plain stupidity
    to think one can change centuries of customary practices by just dishing out
    land.

  90. a-maize-ingly-corny, you asume faar too many things…in the first place, a man does not need a black skin for this southern part of africa…I asume that because non of us turned black after 400 years in this part of africa….now that also means that blacks did not originate from this part of africa…rather from the desert up north meaning thery have no claim here! LOL you hardly make me laugh
    @ Paul…you sound like a typical follower of “the house of windsor”! Fool, stop following your queen, she is a satan worshiper brainwashing all english speakers around the world to think the way she and het satanic free masons and illuminati thinks…well that is if you can call “follow the leader” thinking..LOL English speakers around the world loike to believe they are “free thinkers” yet they ALL think alike…strange people these english speakers..thank God i am Aryan!

  91. Garth, have another sleep and hope for a new dream…i am pleased to see Paul made a statement i can agree with : “Blacks
    have never worked land on any but subsistence scale. It is plain stupidity
    to think one can change centuries of customary practices by just dishing out
    land.” truth is, blacks NEVER worked and if they do, it’s a “royal f@#k-up” anyway..

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