Church and State cartoon

Church and State

Politics and Religion in South Africa

Over the last week, South African president Jacob Zuma finally recaptured the public spotlight from sushi-king Kenny Kunene and the infamous Julius Malema. Mr Zuma had several political parties and church groups with their knickers in a twist with his comments about the relationship between Church and State in South Africa.

In short, Mr Zuma explained that only ANC supporters would be entitled to passage into heaven. Here are some of his quotes which were made, but allegedly taken out of context. Wonkie wonders exactly what the context would have needed to be for these comments to be deemed acceptable by other parties and national church groups – perhaps they were part of the JZ Comedy Hour?

“When you vote for the ANC, you are also choosing to go to heaven. When you don’t vote for the ANC, you should know that you are choosing that man who carries a fork… who cooks people.”

“When you are carrying an ANC membership card, you are blessed. When you get up there, there are different cards used but when you have an ANC card, you will be let through to go to heaven.”

Wonkie inside sources report that both the Dalai Lama and the Pope are in the process of applying for an ANC card – just in case.

On a more serious note, there are a couple of interesting considerations on this subject:

  1. Why can’t a politician use religion as a tool to influence or coerce members of the general public into a certain course of action? After all, the largest religious groups already use the same techniques all over the world to acquire their new recruits.
  2. Is the public really that gullible or easily influenced that makes tools like religion exceedingly effective?

Wonkie looks forward to reading your thoughts on religion in South Africa in relation to politics!

Click HERE to leave YOUR THOUGHTS on Politics and Religion in South Africa.

My thoughts on Jacob Zuma's comments on getting into heaven:

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Comments

  1. Craig Smith says:

    I quite frankly don’t see what’s the big deal. Politicians use this kind of rhetoric to engage the masses – it’s what gets the public riled up. If you look at the posts even on this Wonkie blog, the articles that include something vaguely even related on religion seem to get by far the largest number of comments… that’s because it’s close the the hearts of everyone… no doubt there will be dozens of defensive comments to Zuma’s incredible statements here too……

  2. geeeezzz whats the big deal about this, am sure he didnt mean “HEAVEN”

  3. The comments of President Zuma – if verbatim – reveals that he could not be referring to the Christian faith. If he was then sadly it reveals, that he has not got the slightest idea of the Christian doctrine of salvation.

  4. When you have people who believe that raping a baby will cure aids, then any thing is possible. Zuma and the ANC knows that there is a large number of very simple minded people that is willing to believe anything their leader says. And it is easy to make it off, to more sophisticated people as a joke, because it is so unbelievable.

  5. Out of the heart’s abundance, the mouth speaks.
    One is left to wonder what feels the showerhead president’s heart… must be a lot of kak!

  6. yoh i still cannot bliv dat the pres actually said those foolish & uneducated words! He shld hv used church as a way 2 attract members bt i guess he nvr thought abt dat…nw i knw dat i don’t hv 2 go 2 church or surrender myself 2 the almighty, all i hv 2 do is 2 hv an ANC card! dat guarantees ME an entrance 2 heaven! WOW!!!!

  7. ANC supporters (except the select very few) will never see heaven on earth as long as the ANC rule.

  8. tactical and intelligent blending of religions and politics is the recipe for political survival, but one must be careful, incorrect blending may lead to one`s downfall.

  9. If you are so insecure (sic) no faith, uneducated and gullible (95% of SA population) then sure – you’ll be standing in the long queue…. I wonder what the sangomas vote?

  10. Deena Naidoo says:

    Jacob Zuma, what an arsehole you are. Expecting the Godly masses to believe your suggestion that ‘if you vote ANC – you’ll go to heaven. What utter rubbish. With your beliefs, as president, that the aids virus will go away if you rape a virgin, won’t contact the aids virus if you shower immediately after sex, is misleading and blasphemous. Are you trying to imply the ‘voetstoets clause’ to your voters? Remember, that won’t hold water in court as you do not inform your voters of your ‘hidden defects’. IDIOTS like you are like Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe. Question! Why can’t Obama dismantle the atrocities of Mugabe, instead, he’s dancing to the tunes of Mubarak. Vote DA!

  11. Frank Boase says:

    “Why can’t a politician use religion as a tool to influence or coerce members of the general public”
    Because politicians know nothing about Spritual matters

  12. OLD FASHION says:

    If voting for the anc is heaven, then why after so many years in power they turned our country almost into hell itself . May GOD have mercy on his soul for such an outrages proclamation. Thank the LORD that JESUS is King and can rectify all wrongs, our trust is in JESUS not in politicians,

  13. DA it has to be. The rest seems too full of the wrong stuff. We expect good responsible leadership from the person of the president, not blasphemy!

  14. We need to think and take things serious.In Egpyt things are turning against the president.here in S.A. our president is promising heavan:Maybe the judgement day is too soon as he once said that “their polokwane anc”will rule until…

  15. It is an obvious choice as 90% of ANC supporters are so easily brain washed into believing anything that tumbles out of his mouth. Fortunately we do have a highly educated opposition who would not stoop that low to gain supporters. Between JZ and his son Julius they will wreck this country beyond redemption then blame apartheid for for their short comings. Then make even more promises which the don’t intend to keep just for the sake of bullshitting their voters.

  16. Politics and religion have always lived side by side in South African struggle politics. Check Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the late Bishop Stanley Makgoba, Archbishop Njongunkulu Ndungana and a host of others.

    The Dutch Reformed Church was the bastion of Apartheid preservation and some of its ministers revolted against its teachings of White Afrikaner supremacy.

    Mr President Jacob Zuma drew from the same book, of mixing politics and religion. Amen

  17. smells like desprativity to me, one often wonders what real influence the population has on the anc, this will tell, it is not the first nor probably the last time our president will say such outlandish things. if it was a pollitical ploy and there was a target it would most probably the ZCC people who would fall for such a statement, no disrespect to the zcc community intended its just that majority of the people attending zcc have an anc following and they are simple minded hardworking people and will do anything that there leaders tell them without debating or dissecting the information, fair enough it was a silly comment but who my dear friends was it aimed at? this is the question we should be asking

  18. many ways 2 kill a cat…

  19. OLD FASHION says:

    Some cultures do follow their leaders without having knowledge or discernment of their own. What is so ironic is that those are the ones waiting for handouts, they are the majority of the voters and do not pay taxes but receive grants, = the tax payers bear the brunt. What a comical situation, I do not deprive the true needers, aged and small children grants but the way this is going overboard is outrages. People receiving grants for children are spending it on themselves and the children still go without their required needs. If we all unite in prayer and seeks GOD’s help with contrite hearts HE will hear our cry and heal our land. Strangely enough we have the favour and protection of the LORD have no worries, our only concern is those that do not know the LORD and is being deceived due to lack of faith in GOD, zuma can not save the country only JESUS can.

  20. to all idiots who do not pay attention…

    JUJU said just before the the elections they are prepaired to kill for Zuma…. and now JZ say if you do not vote for ANC you are going to hell…
    this confirms JuJU’s statement that they will kill for JZ, if you do not Vote for ANC hell will break loose…

    need I say more?

  21. sele "khuduthamaga" says:

    i think relevant structures has raised theur concern on this matter, since president JZ took over all his statement are criticesed thout but why???
    that statement of JZ does not insult anyone unless im wrong, no one can claim ownership of christianity, please maan people, “tlogelang Msholozi wa rona, yo re mo ihlopetseng”

  22. I am a Swazi by birth and you wont believe it that a senior Prince once said that the royal family was closer to God and any one who was against the royalty was bound to burn in hell. Guess what,after the rant from the media he changed the tune like Umsholozi. Please advice the South-Africans to stick to their choice not that they will see heaven for voting for Umsholozi. Kanthi Umsholozi so-desperate yini bakwethu for amvote?

  23. You are wrong,when you say that JZ’s statement does not insult anyone.
    When a leader of the country says that only ANC Card Holders will go to Heaven….. He is insulting and belittling Christ’s suffering on the cross for the salvation of souls, he is also insulting the intelligence of South African Citizens. Finally he is misleading thousands of uneducated people who believe that the President would not say anything that was not actually true, hence they will look no further than an ANC card to get to Heaven.
    A President should be above stupid remarks that will mislead and misdirect people. Those remarks simply show the lack of education our own President has. Dare we send him overseas to other countries at any time to represent us? It makes me wonder what other remarks he might have made while sitting with dignatories over lunch in another country.

  24. Well, this is really going back to stoneage, as Zumu is using the old Zulu superstition
    to influence the majority of uneducated rural black people. Hoping the people that
    read or hear his speech, really realiase, he is just an idiot. I think he is grasping at
    straws, because his time will be running out, including all his cronies. Dont think
    for a moment that south africa is going to not go thru what Eygpt and Tunisa have
    experienced. He better rather work with the opposition, before there is chaos.

  25. I don’t see any problem because even the supporters have demacratically rights to belong to christianity, yes of course I can use words in
    christy in politics because of freedom of speech. Rememember archibishop asking the crowd, election ? election ? because of those quisitions we were able to vote for the first time

  26. The poor imbecile! History has a habit of repeating itself, but then he and his followers have never heard about the causes of the French and Russian revolutions. And now North Africa.
    Wake up JZ, before it is too late! You and your honchos will not be spared.

  27. I long taught myself never to share the same views with whites because they too will never do the same with a non-white who attacks whites…and here I do the same!

    Palin`s blood libel utterances an tony leon`s fight black back never received this wide condemnation from whites and leon was never asked to leave the party nor has palin lost her governorship position…threfore I`m not going to express my view on he zuma utterances but reserve them!

  28. I strongly agree with Ron hey… and all I can say is: for all our sakes, I hope God Almighty is taking this as lightly as we are doing; I hope He laughs with those who are laughing, and thinks it’s not a big deal like those who think it’s not a big deal… but if He’s taking as seriously as those who are taking seriously (if not more), then I pray that His mercy will come upon all of us… For all our sakes!

  29. Religion has always been a way to control people. In this sense, what JZ is doing is no different from what Ray McCauley or that potato guy does, or in fact what Al Kaeda and the fundie Creationist movement in America does: Wrap up their ideology in religion and persuade soft-headed people that they must do what the leaders want.

    The sooner people learn to think critically and cast off the shackles of all religions, the better a place the earth will be.

  30. How did Zuma find out about Heaven.He believes in the Fore Fathers and witch doctors and many wives.Me thinks he should hang the presidential gloves behind the door and be a Father to all the dozens of he`s children.
    Still want to ask Zuma what he uses to still father kids at he`s age and have one night stands in between. Wish i was as virile. one thing for sure,my misses would be smiling.

  31. Binky wa-Rosina says:

    There’s no place in heaven for polygamists, thieves and people who are corrupt. I may just as well remind South African that before God sent the flood to destroy the world, people there were very happy and excited since they married, confirmed their children, partied for their achievements. They sinned and hoped that they could get away with it until Noah was instructed to built the Hark and made the selection of animals as directed by God. The rest was a human race disaster that left all of them dead without anybody to bury them as it rained day after day without end.

  32. The vast majority of the masses in our country are uneducated people who will
    believe their President.Now he tells them that an ANC card is a pass to heaven?
    In other words they can rob,rape and murder and there will be no retribution.
    And we are led to believe that the ANC is serious about stamping out crime.He
    is a flippin imbecile.

  33. OLD FASHION says:

    Just seems that the struggle will just go on and on and get worse as there are more struggling to survive now then before 1994. Survival now is only for a few elite. Feel sorry for those that do no have God’s favour upon their lives. It is written that in the last days people will be obsessed with themselves, selfcentred, selfenrichment with more love for money, material possession, hatefull, full of revenge and no faith. These are the days we are living in and the proof is in the pudding and gravy train. No wonder JESUS says HE will be back to save HIS Kingdom from this evil world.

  34. ANC heaven
    Corruption . crime . tender fix ; 3 wives ; loose children ; drunk judges , arms deal ; Malema the gate keeper , Winny incharge of the angels ;
    viva la anc heaven

  35. the previous government ruled this country by religion why was there no protest.The NGK was their religious front and a twin-brother!All those iniquities it perpetrated it claimed to have committed them under religious and not political beliefs!

  36. To all ANC voters – you do know that you need to die first before your soul enters heaven?That means you wont be able to take your money along;All virgins will stay virgins,that includes you;Any sushi there will have a soul like you-means you pray with your food,not for it;You will have wings,so no more travelgate;You wont be able to use your vote to return from heaven.But the good news is that the pearly gates CAN open wide for all you fatcats.

  37. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim, although we do not agree with certain actions of the previous government we do however agree that GOD says in Lev. 20 : Those who worship ancestoral spirits will be cut off from GOD’s favour. Jesus was not excepted by the majority on account of their witchraft and ancestoral spirit worshipping. We can not be equally yoked where there is no favour of GOD and shut off from HIS grace. JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, TRUTH , HIGH PRIEST AND INTERCESSOR WHO BOUGHT US ON CALVARY SO WE MAY HAVE GOD’S FAVOUR. AND THIS SETTLES IT, NO MAN CAN UNDO THIS. GOD Bless you all and deliver you from the evil deceitful lucifer who has conned you for thousands of years.

  38. I like Joon’s remark as it is in line with the remarks Jesus made! To hell with religions; religions are whitened graves looking good from the outside only…the only ones not looking good from the outside I know of are satanism, ancestor worship and the muslim religion 😉

    s’thandile

    All governments use “churches” to spread their “gospel” as the churches of today are just another part of satan’s media! For that reason God and I labeled every “church” with a name as the sinagoge of satan!

    Tim
    I got to know you as a man with no view at all..so you have nothing to reserve! Kind of normal for your tribe ( erreheim must be one of you ) – you are part of african majority 😉 take note, the NGK followed their goverment…the NP government never followed the NGK..get a view first and then test your keybord.

    Vaughn
    I take it that ANC supporters must see the shit-streams in street as heaven ( for the flies?)..take note of Ken’s remark; since the english rain is gone he seems to be seeing clearly now

    Peter,

    Looking at the state of affairs arround me, you should NEVER have had the priviledge to vote!

    poppy
    Look out your window and you will see the chaos outside

    Unknown
    The only good choice you made was your “wonkie-name” 😉

    Tanni

    These fools study the french revolution and hope to repeat it! That’s where the so called “african renaissance” comes from…ancestor worshippers ALWAYS live in the past as they worship the past!

    Annie of McGregor
    If you can see behind african “liedazz” you will see that the samgomas ARE the rulers! They don’t need to vote…you must be a goodwill englishspeaker hey??

    sele “khuduthamaga”
    You ask why all zuma’s staments are “criticesed”? Because he is a total FOOL!

    Anyway, people, my God and I were waiting for this to happen….Deut. 32:
    27Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this. 28For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them. 29O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end! 30How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? 31For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges. 32For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter: 33Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. 34Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? 35To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

  39. I`m living on the streets because they are more purified and healthier than humans and their environments and I have never been so happy!Its like living in some oZONE FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENTS WITH JUST THE BIRDS AND TREES BECAUSE I TAKE MY MIND OUT OF THE PUBLIC FOCUS.

    i STARTED BY ESTRANGING MYSELF FROM MY TRADITIONAL CONNECTIONS AFTER DISCOVERING THAT GENDER DISCRIMINATION WAS ALIVE AND WELL AND EVEN TOLERATED BY THE STRUGGLERS.THEN I DECIDED THAT THERE WAS NO OTHER RACE I CAN SHARE MY LIFE WITH BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL PREJUDICED AGAINST ME!DO YOU KNOW ME AND WHAT I`M CAPABLE OF?

  40. OLD FASHION says:

    Hi Tim, we are praying that the LORD JESUS will reveal HIMSELF to you, let you experience a miracle of peace and love in your life. Seek HIM and you will find HIM. May HIS grace and mercy be your strength.

  41. It is all the fault of colonialism and apartheid settlers who convinced and coerced the people of Africa to believe in a God who was not known to them before the arrival of the settlers and colonists.

  42. Garth

    exactly the problem with you and africa and the englishspeaker heathen of this world – you are blindfolded!

    1. Your statement is against that God! You are His enemy because of that statement as that God you complain about told those who know Him by means of love to go tell everybody, all nations about Him so they can live in love and prosperity. If you think that caused all problems you are against what he wants and therefore will stay as foolish as you are.
    2. Should everybody live according to the one and only God who created all things and because of that know that every nation should have their own place ( Deut. 32:8 and Acts 17:26 of the Bible) , we will have no problems with one another and live as good neighbors!

    Now the liberals want to do things their way and as you can see, it does not work and will never work.

    Tim

    you seems to self centred, because your remark starts off with “I” and refer to that “I” far to often and being self centered, allways concentrating on the fact that “I am hungry ( to use the african expression ) ” where Adam and Eve started using the expression ” I am naked” since gen. 3:6, is a sign of being self centred wich is the root of all evil!

  43. OLD FASHION

    If you want to present yourself as somebody who belive in the one and only true God, the God of the Bible, then don’t read only the verses you like in order to play your englishspeker card!
    Now that englishspeaker card works like this:
    Gay people will support a pro-gay organisation, dog lovers will support law’s protecting animals and especialy those laws and orginisations showing compassion towards dogs and/or protecting the rights of dogs but will not want to teach those dogs to start speak their languages. If you really love a dog, you would want it to stay a dog and have the right to be a dog.
    If the englishspeakers really loved all the nations they colonised, they would not want them all to become english, would they? They would respect the fact that they are Zulu, Swazi or whetever and would want those nations to still be who they really and as I see it, that was Verwoerds aim! But there were people between the nats who were infuenced by free mason bull of the englishspeakers, like Vorster, pikswart Botha and others who then foun Stafendas and planted him in a position so he can kill Verwoerd on their behalf and once that happened, they aplied Verwoerd’s policy the wrong way round so it would not have the result it was supposed to have in order to give the liberal masonic driven englishspeakers a reason to point fingers at them so they can convince the nation that Verwoerd was evil and foolish! The trick worked for the massses but not for people like me as some of us, coul see right thru these satan worshippers clothed like priests.

    Now I wanna know from you as an englishspeaker, how come you force your english on all nations if you really love them like you pretend? How come most of you support the DA wich is traditonall was a bunch of englishspeakers since nogal “SIR” de Villiers Graaf, Helen Suzman and other fools alike?
    I put it to you, that you englishspeakers only observe the rights of black’s in order to fool them to support you englishspeakers in order to eventually arive at your final plan, one global englishspeaking nation with one englishspeaking government! No matter where that government is based, england, new zealand, canada or america, you don’t really care, as long as you eventually have your englishspeaker world.

    Too many of the things you englishspeakers do witness against you, that you do not care a fidler’s fart about othersm, you are just pretending.

    You say you do not agree with what the previous government do, come on, exactly what is it you don’t agree with? I can’t wait to hear from you as I plan to reveal you for what you really are to all brainy wonkiers 😉 with all your kamtige super-holy-prayers and all.

  44. The Dutch-Hollanders are the ones who are fools because they attavck others while they practice what they criticise on others!

    The streets of South Africa are not full of entitled and dependent blacks but Hollanders and they`re permanent and proifessional beggars and this stems from apartheid days.Yes!IJ understand the situation of those white tramps of apartheid days{who were fathers who went to jail and left everything for their children because they didn`t want their children to know about his circumstances nor to suffer and on release went to thE streets to avoid contact with their children.

    You say we are beggars and thE white man is the inventor an developer and I ASK YOU WHY DOESN`T THESE HOTTE NTOTS HOLLANDERS INVENT AND DEVELOP THAN BEGGING MUCH TO THEIR EMBARRASSMENT!

  45. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, you obiously do not have a personal relationship with the LORD, JESUS teaches us to treat others as we want them to treat us. Love GOD with all your heart and your neighbor like yourself. “By the way who says I am englishspeaking? Let him who is without sin pick up the first stone. The Gospel of JESUS saves , HE took all the condemnation and punishment so that we do not have to be punished. If your enemy is hungry give him something to eat. I suggest that you read the WORD prayerfully and see the love and goodness of GOD.

  46. OLD FSHION SEEMS TO BE PREACHING MAcAULEY GOSPEL BUT HE ROB PENSIONERS AND DISABLED!

  47. Tim

    Ask the hottentots if you want answers from them.

    Old fashion

    If you liove your neighbor, yo will tell him/her the truth to salvation! But don’t forget to tell me what exactly your problem with the previous goverment is as that NAT government from John ( english name ) Vorster onwards, was not the NAT governmwnt the people though it was! They danced to the tune of the englishspeakers like I explained before!

    And, like I said, you are just a pretender reading only the verses in the Bible that fit your englishspeaker agenda..what doy you think of these scriptures..are they not the love of God because they contain truth?
    Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
    14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    You have no idea who I am in the Lord Jesus and for what reason I am active on forums like this!

  48. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, you may have knowledge of the scriptures but if you don’t have love then you become an empty vessel just making a noise, full of condemnation. How do you make disciples of all nations if you judge them and rob them of the ULTIMATE CRUCIFICTION PRICE that JESUS paid to set us free????

  49. OLD FASHION

    Again you come play your englishspeaker card…If Eph. 5:1 encourage me to be like God, how do you come to the conclusion that when I act according to the example I get from Titus 1:12 – 14 that I do not have the love of Jesus in me? Your only way out of this one is to somehow declare that the letters of Paul should not be part of the Bible!

    The Bible decern itself from all other books on this planet for ALWAYS sticking to the truth about everyone and not covering any of the character’s faults/sin. Paul wrote those words because God inspired him to do so, and you want to say words like that are judgemental? You are calling God judgemental now and for doing so I put it to you that you are the enemy of God pretending you are an angel of light!

    If you do not like God’s way of dealing with the facts of life, don’t pretend to be His follower! Out of your words I have no other choice than to come to the conclusion that you must believe that you know better than God hoe to deal with people by rebuking people. nations, christ’s followers sharply so they can be sound in faith! And that is exactly what i am doing with you now also because God told me to do so! If you don’t like it, take it up with Him.. 😉

  50. Hi TIM
    Hottentots was the name given by Your fore father Jan Van Riebeeck to people that was born through the mixing of the setlers with the KHOI woman they used for slaves ; and most of the afrikaners came from that lot
    The Khoi and i am one them is the custodians of the Cape ; 2000 years ago ;the skeleton found on Table Mountain is proof
    The Khoi believe in God ; if you read the bible you will find it mentioned there ; the first people of the land ; The God that we serve is the same God our fore fathers served ; and that Great God you or the ANC cannot use for politics ; It is hard to fall in the hands of a living God ; Zuma and any body who use that name in vain ; be warned
    Un less a man is born again he will never see, or enter the kingdom of heaven.i trust we are reading the same bible ; this is no church , or man thing ; It is a God thing
    in vain a man build the city ; if God is not the builder ;

  51. Hi
    No political party ; structures or any man thhoughts or words can describe Heaven ;
    What the eye did not see ; or the ear did not hear thats what God has prepared for those who love HIM
    Unless a man is born again he will never see or enter the kingdom of heaven
    Go read it yourself ; i do not want to give you the scrpture texts ; because as you search for it in the Bible you will get wisdom
    He is not a political pawn ; or dictated by man ; church his thoughts are not our thoughts ; His ways are not our ways ;Zuma and the ANC or any political party ; be warned ; it is hard to fall in the hands of a living GOD ;

  52. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, Paulus was geroep om die evangelie aan die heiden nasies te verkondig die nie Jode. Die nuwe testament is die nuwe bedeling na die kruisiging van JESUS sodat almal wie HOM aanneem toegang tot GOD die VADER mag he. Jesus se opdrag aan die kerk is: Gaan en maak disipels van al die nasies, verkondig die Woord tydig en ontydig. As julle GOD liefhet sal julle almal lief he. Ons mag nie wraak neem nie dit is alleen GOD wat dit kan doen. Hy sal elkeen vergeld volgens sy werke. Miskien is jou bedoeling opreg maar hoekom dan soveel beledigings? Die HERE GOD het vir Abraham gese uit hom sal al die nasies gebore word. Wie is ons om vir GOD te se in watter nasie ons wil wees, HY bepaal ons geboorte en geboorte plek so moet asseblief nie mense veroordeel as hulle nie dieselfde nasie as jy is nie. Die Ou Testament is professie oor JESUS en jy kan JESUS uit enige boek in die Bybel sien. Liefde is die oorwinnings taal van GOD ons Skepper omdat HY ons so lief het en wil he dat ons verlore moet gaan nie maar dat almal die ewige lewe sal be erwe. Die keuse is wel ons eie wie ons wil dien.

  53. to get a job in the security guarv industry you must be filled with hatred of the black man and be willing to kill him without a wink!You get promoted b presenting a black corpse to your supervisers and so who is genocidal towards the other here!

  54. OLD FASHION

    My roeping is nie om soos ‘n engelsprater die wereld met allerhande vrome twakpraatjies heuning om die bek te smeer nie. Ook is ek nie geroep om agter die meerderheid aan te praat nie, maar om by die waarhede van die Woord te bly en as iemand dit beledigend vind, is dit maar jammer – ek gee nie om nie!

    Ek wag nog steeds dat jy moet vertel presies wat die vorige regering nou eintlik verkeerd gedoen het…LW..Verwoerd se administrasie was die laaste regeering gewees, almal daarna was ‘n vrymesselaar sirkus wat na die “new world order” mik tot vandag toe!

    Ek weet presies waarvoor Paulus geroep was..nl om die evangelie te verkondig aan ALMAL, nie aan die of daai nie en so ek ook deur hul heilige koeie te slag, hul heilige boomstamme en altare om te gooi, stukkend te kap met die en te verbrand met die VUUR wat by my mond/keybord uitgaan! En enige iemand wat my in my roeping wil stuit, sal ek nie duld nie want God het my voorkop hard gemaak sodat ek vreesloos aan die heidene sowel as aan die Israel van God hul boosheid bekend kan maak.

    KEN

    Hierdie ANC heidene het met die uitspraak van hul zuma reeds in die hand van die lewende God beand, jou waarskuwing kom te laat – Vervloek is die hele spul kragtens 1 Kor. 16:22 en laat hul ondergang nie talm nie!

  55. Het hierdie politieke blad nou n Sondag skool klas geword???????????
    Did this political page become a Sunday school class????????????????
    Wonkie PLEASE open a Sunday school Class page for these bible punchers.
    Politics and Religion do not mix,Billions of lives over the millennia has perished in the worst imaginable ways because of Religion and Politics.

  56. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, ek is nie genoodsaak om my verduideliking oor vorige politieke aangeleenthede waarvan ek persoonlik kennis dra verskuldig nie. Gaan beslis nie sommige ammunisie gee wat hulle vir uitbuiting sal gebruik nie. So rus maar in vrede en gaan aan met jou studies dalk ontdek jy wel die waarheid en Wie die Waarheid is. Arme Boerkie het nooit van Sondagskool gehou nie en lyk my nog steeds skepties teenoor die enigste weg van vrede.

  57. Boertjie

    Kyk tog na die opskrif van die blaai heelbo – Hierdie spesifieke blad gaan juis oor die vermenging van politiek en godsdiens in ZA- skrik tog wakker en moenie ‘n gek van jouself as Boer maak nie!

    Old Fashion

    As Boertjie nie van sondag skool hou nie, het hy tog ‘n punt beet (al lyk dit of hy die kat aan die stert se punt beet het)…sondagskool is uit die bose! Gaan doen bietjie Bybel studie en knap die kennis so bietjie op.

    Ek ken die Waarheid toevallig persoonlik, ons het ‘n verhouding, nie ‘n stroperige aangeplakte toneelspel aan die gang nie…daarom lees ek die Woord nie so selektief soos jy nie en steur ek my minder as niks daaraan om polities korrek te wees nie.

    Soos ek die skrif verstaan, moet mens bereid wees om rekenskap te gee aangaande die dinge wat jy se/skryf/verkondig en jy het as volg hierbo geskrywe: “Tim, although we do not agree with certain actions of the previous government “…so waarom nou so onbybels optree deur te weier om rekenskap van jou bewerings te gee?

  58. OLD FASHION says:

    Jesus se woorde oor die grootste gebod is die liefde, as dit soetsappig en toneelspel is vra die HERE hoekom HY dit as die groot gebod van ons vereis.
    Ons het heelwat wie ons al deur blogs bereik het se getuienisse gehoor en ons prys en dank die HERE dat HY al ons gebede verhoor. Wat n vreugde en wat n wonderlike Hemelse Vader het ons. Somtyds neem dit jare, maande of weke maar SY Woord keer nooit leeg na HOM toe terug nie. Dit is ons plig ook om kinders in die Woord en weg van die HERE te onderrig, ons mag hulle nie verhinder om die Blye Boodskap te beleef nie.

  59. My ancestors warned me about people like dirk that came over the mountains with the big truck.Some people just deserved to be lost for 40 years in the desert.

  60. OLD FASHION
    Dis waar dat die groot gebod liefde is, maar die selfde Woord van Liefde waarsku ook “22 Let dan op die goedertierenheid en die gestrengheid van God:”
    Die Bybel: Ou Vertaling, (Suid–Afrika: Bybelgenootskap Van Suid–Afrika) 1953.

    Om net die hele tyd op die liefde te wil fokus sonder om ook die gestrengheid en of oordeel van God in aanmerking te neem is nie meer die waarheid nie en maak mens skuldig daaraan dat jy die leringe van duiwels verkondig….mense wil mos net in die gehoor gestreel wees en net die dinge hoor wat hulle pas! Tog se die Woord dat as iemand sy seun se rug die roede spaar, haat hy hom! Nou hoe dan nou? Sou dit nie ‘n manier wees om die Bybel-boodskap waarne jy verwys te verydel om net die hele tyd op die aangename te fokus nie? Hierdie ding om so polities korrek te wees, is net ‘n ander manier van booswigte in die gehoor te streel en dis nie wat ek by Jesus sien wanner hy die skrifgeleerdes en farriseers “addergaslag” noem nie. Ek volg die voorbeeld wat ek van Jesus kry, al maak die waarheid seer, want dit het ook sy doel. Om net op die liefde te konsentreer is vals! Aangeplakte vroomheid met net een doel voor oe, om die guns van die heidene te wen sonder om hul saligheid in aanmerking te neem. Elijah was ie verniet die profeet van vuur genoem nie! Johannes die doper se kop sou nie afgekap gewees het indien hy net die hele tyd op stroperige liefdesvertomings gekonsentreet het nie en tog noem Jesus in Mat 11:11 dat niemand wat uit vroue gebore is, groter as hy was nie! Wat ek doen is om te doen wat God my beveel het om te doen, en dis om jou te vermaan om die volle waarheid te verkondig, nie net die een helfte wat jy dink jou gewildheid gaan besorg nie.

    erraheim
    Your ancestors, who are dead and in their graves did not speak to you, it was evil spirits from hell pretending to be your ancestors and evil spirits are liars like most black people are, however, one truth that need to be clarified is the mountain those evil spirits refered to..wich mountain was that?

  61. OLD FASHION says:

    Dit is juis ons liefde vir die HERE dat ons verlorenes bereik, met hulle eie keuse om te besluit, sou hulle dit nie aanvaar nie dan vee ons die stof van ons voete af. Die duiwel mislei so baie dat hulle nie eens weet dat dit hy is wie hulle van die Waarheid weerhou nie. Daarom moet ons met dankbaarheid getuig want ons was almal verlore en sommige nou Koninkryk;s kinders omdat ons JESUS as ons enigste verlosser en saligmaker het. Net vir interresantheids onthalwe, Oz se nuwe eerste minister n vrou is n erkende ateis en kyk hoe het die HERE gereageer deur al die oorstromings. So die wraak kom GOD toe HY weet wanneer om in te gryp, nooit te vroeg en nooit te laat nie altyd op tyd.

  62. religion and the politics is the same because its all about whose who in the zoo. the truth of the matter is found on the church denominations that are found throughout the world but using one red book in different interpretations.

    in church its all about cold war ( power battle ) over whose rules that are heard on earth but not withstanding the realities of spiritual secret of God, if its lies my argument why do you have church goers do no live a Godly living but they are just professional clergies who want to feed their stomachs at the expense of poor people. I think politicians like Mandela and Thabo Mbeki, OR Tambo will enter heaven for the good sacrifice they have made just for the sake of oppressed people.

  63. We go way off the mark when we read/use portions of scripture that suit our theories. We go way off the mark when we start mixing religion with politics. We go way off the mark when we start comparing your church as against others.
    The question each of us must ask of ourselves is this:

    “What is my relationship like with God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ?
    Do I in fact have a personal relationship with God?

    We can know our Bible Backwards, quote verses back and forth, Never miss a Church service, but if we do not have a personal relationship, we are totally lost.

    “When the Judgment Day comes, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God’s message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles!’ Then I will say to them, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people!’ Mat 7:22-23

    The new Birth plays an important role in attaining salvation. It is here that we have a change of heart. Politics, Church attendance, Biblical Knowledge are of no consequence if you do not have a personal relationship with God.
    This relationship can only be attained by being Born Again into the Family of God, where He can truly be called “FATHER”

  64. OLD FASHION

    Ek hou nog heeltyd van jou en wou nie met jou baklei nie..vergewe my as ek jou omgekrap het.

    Daar was ‘n tyd wat die swartes ons oordeel en regverdigheid vertrou het ten spyte van afsonderlike ontwikkeling want, glo my, hulle wil ook nie met ons verbaster nie en beskou dit nie as ‘n “upgrade” nie.
    Maar toe kom “die engelspraters van hierdie wereld” ( en met die term verwys ek nie na engels sprekendes nie, maar na die spul wat een nuwe wereld orde met een godsdiens en natuurlik engels as enigste taal in gedagte het) met hulle slimstories en vertroebel alle goeie verhoudinge wat hier eens was ten einde hul doel te bereik.

    Ja dis baie waar wat jy se..ek was nie bewus van Oz se eersteminister se vrou se storie nie…maar ook hier by ons het die water vloede sy wraak geneem want die S.A. Volk het die God wat hulle geseen het vergeet..eerstens het hul “kerke” hulle bedrieg, in stryd met Mat. 11:33 -37 en Jak. 5:12 ede laat maak om hul in die “gevangenis” te plaas en toe aangemoedig deur die NP het hul baie onregverdige dinge aan die heidene gedoen wat nooit moes gebeur het nie en ek sal dit nooit goedpraat nie en het nooit aandeel daaraan gehad nie en die mense wat hulself aan die dinge skuldig gemaak het, was nie die ouens wat HNP gestem het nie, maar juis die misleide NATTES van John Vorster an later se goddeloses wat behae in die leuen gehad het! Ek was baie kere amper ook gevoeter omdat ek daardie haters van alle gregtigheid nie wou volg op hul bose weg nie, ( selfs voor 1984 toe ek nog nie eers wedergebore was nie) want hulle was aangehits om sulke dinge te doen met die uitsluitlike doel om Verwoerd se standpunte boos te laat vertoon sodat die wereld ‘n klip kon kry om mee te gooi. Dit was fyn beplande strategie van die vrymesselaars en ek gaan elkeen van hulle wat aan my bekend raak sonder uitsondering met die vloek tref, al sou dit my bloedverwant wees!

  65. Ron…moet ek nou vir jou ook se wat ek vir Boetjie gese het? Neem die onderwerp van die bespreking in ag – ek stem saam met wat jy se maar hierdie besondere bespreking gaan juis oor die onderwerp van vermenging van godsdiens en politiek en tog is die een so boos soos die ander…ek is NIE GODSDIENSTIG NIE, ekm is ‘n wedergebore kind van God en beoefen geen godsdiens nie, maar wandel volgens die geloof en insig wat aan my geskenk is…Efe 2:8

  66. OLD FASHION says:

    A Word of prpphecy, God and politics can not be seperated. Tje LORD is already busy cleaning up S.A even though it can not be seen in the spirit by many. Drugs, and immoral sex abuse is busy seperating the goats from the sheep. Soon there is not going to be enough needles (already in shortage) and reusage of them causes aids, so we can expect to see the aids epidemic taking far bigger tolls then before. Drug dea;ers will run out of customers as they will no longer be around. Already hospitals can not cope with all the sick people as GOD will be holding back help for those who do not serve HIM. The drug problem is so huge that the few that the police find is only a drop in the ocean and then some of the police are receiving kickbacks from drug dealers not to be arrested. If we did not have the current governers we have today the cleaning process of the godless could not have happened. So you see GOD’s plan is always perfect.

  67. Old Fashion.

    When did God tell you this? “Already hospitals can not cope with all the sick people as GOD will be holding back help for those who do not serve HIM.”

    Especially the part: “God holds back help for those who do not serve Him.”
    (Seperating the goats from the sheep)

    The separation of Goats and Sheep will only take place at the Judgment throne.
    Is it possible then that Christians never have immoral sex? Does God turn His eyes away when they do sin and only considers non Christians as people who are to be erased off this earth?

    God is not in the business of wiping out people. We are told that He is willing that none should perish. God intensely waits for another thief on the cross who may ask for forgiveness.
    Why not rather blame the enemy of this world, Satan “who roams the earth seeking whom he may devour.”

  68. This Afrikaans chat shows how comfortable the boers are in this black ruled country.Its all due to our failure to usurp and subjugate them and now they are usurping and subjugating us.These Zimbabweans they are so obssessed with are their private army and foot-soldiers whom they are bussing here to come and kill us to meet their visions of here being no blacks in 2014.

    Unfortunately it won`t happend but instead thre won`t be boers and zimbabweans here in 2014.This is an exercise in futility they tried in all the continent countries after independence but fortunately for those inhabitants of countries who have a military training it was exposed and they thwart and scupper them .Those who live by the barrel f a gun mut die by it!

  69. OLD FASHION says:

    Yes Ron you are quite right, it is not GOD who is wiping out but satan and his followers, God is allowing it so the country can become clean to serve HIM in the last days. It is time for many to repent and turn to serve the LORD , GOD will have mercy on them and they will escape the phanom. But for those as in the days of Sodom and Gomorra that turn a deaf ear and refuse to serve or accept him will bear their own consequences

  70. In SA we hav a freedom of speech; so, why cant we let the poor man to campaign with the name of God. Maybe sum of us will b blesed nd born again. “God is great!”

  71. Shuz wakwa nine osoloko enoline says:

    I like the president but I think he should attend English and psycology classes maybe he might realise that this is the real world and most of us depend on him as our president. I wish Nelson Mandela was young again

  72. Suzan, what zuma did, was to use the Name of the Lord in vain…one of the most misunderstood of the ten commandments en elkeen wat die Naam van die Here ydelik gebruik, sal nie ongestraf gelaat word nie…vervloek is zuma dus..so ook sy nageslag! die vorige regering se heiden/vrymesselaar staatsmanne het die selfde gedoen deur in die Naam van die Here hul berdrieglike vergaderings te open en daarom was hulle verwyder en die volk onder die juk van barbare geplaas…totdat die barbare die selfde fout maak, wat zuma gelukkig nou geaak het sodat die barbare weer gestraf kan word!..Ag hoe lekker kry ek as ek die sterke hand van die Here sien werk!

    Shuz wakwa nine osoloko enoline

    Selfs al is mandela weer jonk, bly hy steeds ‘n fool en sal die selfde pad loop…jammer, maar dis hoe dit nou maar is! 😉

  73. Vervloek is zuma dus..so ook sy nageslag! die vorige regering se heiden/vrymesselaar staatsmanne het die selfde gedoen deur in die Naam van die Here hul berdrieglike vergaderings te open en daarom was hulle verwyder en die volk onder die juk van barbare geplaas
    Ag hoe lekker kry ek as ek die sterke hand van die Here sien werk!
    Selfs al is mandela weer jonk, bly hy steeds ‘n fool en sal die selfde pad loop

    ” En die Fariseër het gaan staan en by homself so gebid: o God, ek dank U dat ek nie soos die ander mense is nie—rowers, onregverdiges, egbrekers, of ook soos hierdie tollenaar nie.
    Ek vas twee keer in die week, ek gee tiendes van alles wat ek verkry.
    En die tollenaar het ver weg gestaan en wou selfs nie sy oë na die hemel ophef nie, maar het op sy bors geslaan en gesê: o God, wees my, sondaar, genadig!
    Ek sê vir julle, hierdie laaste een het geregverdig na sy huis gegaan eerder as die eerste een; want elkeen wat homself verhoog, sal verneder word, en hy wat homself verneder, sal verhoog word.
    Luk 18:11 – Luk 18:14

  74. Ron,

    Is ek bly om te sien jy het ook ‘n bybel! baie toepaslike skrifgedeelte waarmee jy afsluit… 😉

  75. Ja Dirk,
    Maar net in Christlike liefde.

  76. OLD FASHION says:

    I feel enough has been said to from my side concerning the happenings in this country. We will continue to pray for all and await the LORD’s answer. For those that do not wish to accept the FACT that JESUS is the only way to salvation makes my flesh crawl for they must prepare themselves for eternal condemnation. We are happy and contented and have no fear or worries as the LORD takes care of us and showers us with HIS love and goodness. Pity so many are missing out on so much goodness.

  77. OLD FASHION says:

    Unions are calling for protests and increases: The effect is now starting to happen. Companies are forced to rationalise, by retrenching due to higher wage demands, increased costs in fuel and labour and the supply of production materials will also increase now . So now we can expect more job losses. Some companies will only supply if the buyer collects himself or delivery charges will become skyhigh. Toll gates are fine in works in countries where there infra structures have secure and good public transport facilities. Where is our public transport? The are putting the cart before the horse, the horse knows how to pull and not to push.

  78. Eintlik verlustig ek my in al die gebeure want die einde van die ANC is in sig! Nogtans sal die “hopping-mad” mense steeds vir hul eie ondergang stem bloot omdat dit so belangrik vir die groepskape is om deel van die meerderheid te wees! Dit sal net afhang wie die hoogste prys sal betaal vir die “Markinor se navosing het getoon” om uitslae in hul guns te gee! Markinor is in goeie besigheid, ek moet se! wat is nou makliker om na die smaak van hoogste aanbod te lieg! Aan die ander kant van die munt sien ek steeds ‘n klomp masonic sataniste…maak nie saak wie die volgede owerheid gaan wees nie want…

    Efe 6:12 Want ons worstelstryd is nie teen vlees en bloed nie, maar teen die owerhede, teen die magte, teen die wêreldheersers van die duisternis van hierdie eeu, teen die bose geeste in die lug.
    Die Bybel: Ou Vertaling, (Suid–Afrika: Bybelgenootskap Van Suid–Afrika) 1953.

    Die wereld heersers van die duisternis, wat hulself die “verligtes” noem, bly steeds 24/7/365 aan die werk! 😉 die chaos is goed vir besigheid, want alles wat verniel word, moet vervang word en die staat versamel steeds sy 14% V.A.T. en ABSA met die effe versteekte “all seeing eye” in sy kenteken verdien goeie rente op al die lenings…so is dit nou maar!

  79. @Dirk, Ron, Boerkie etc – please keep your comments in English or they will be removed from the site.

  80. Cheers

  81. politics and religion go together Jews crucified Jesus Christ because of JELOUSY because Christ could convert water into wine, heal people without medication and feed multitudes with 5 loaves of bread and 2 pieces of fish. And when one wishes to go to heaven one obtains a ticket from Him not ANC. To crown it all He is the only one who can conquer DEATH.

  82. OLD FASHION says:

    Linda you are so right, and the biggest event since the beginning of creation is so close at hand and yet many do not seem to believe it. Jesus is coming back very very soon and every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD. The day HE returns the heavens and earth shall be so bright it will blind the unbelievers, HIS Kingdom children that have served HIM faithfully and joyfully shall be changed into heavenly beings in a second , shall meet up with HIM and be with HIM forever in Heaven. 1 Thes 4

  83. Linda and Old Fashion, the best part of His return to fetch those who knew Him ( He does not need our services as nothing is impossible to Him ) is the event directly after we meet with Him…and that is what I am looking forward to before departing into heaven…..

    Mat.12: 41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. 42The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

    and

    Math 19:28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    In that LAST DAY I will take pleasure in sending zuma with his ANC-ticket and all to hell for ever!

  84. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk , as a 5 year old I had a dream that was so real that I think about it everyday of my life and I am a 68 year old. Around me was a light brighter then the sun and lifting me up but the earth below was blazing with fire and quakes the light and lifting part was awesome and the fire part was awefull but I was extremely excited being in the light part that was not burning.
    This dream I believe was from the LORD telling me that I will still be in this life when HE returns. Is it really possible to still remember a dream that I had over sixty years ago so vividly?
    Every of our day lives we pray for our childrens safety and protection from the Lord and ten years ago our one son was waiting for robot to turn green behind another vehicle and a truck came from behind and could not stop in time. The truck hit our son’s car slamming him into the vehicle in front of him and immediatly caught alight and jammed all the doors. A journalist was travelling in the opposite direction and witnessed exactly what happened and stopped. He saw my son caught in the blazing vehicle and as he waited for a car to pass before he crossed to help my son was standing outside and the doors and windows was still jammed. He came out alive without an injury. The next day in the newspaper which we kept on the front page was the headline. DRIVERS MIRACLE ESCAPE the driver of the car in front of him was injured but our son did not even have a scratch. I have had many miracles in my life time of which I could easily write a book.

  85. OLD FASHION,

    What a wonderfull post! Maybe you should think about writing that book…maybe, just maybe politicians like zuma who bring their own gospel, will read it and stop making me angry.

    But guess what, I also have a feeling He will return in my lifetime! I think that 2010/11 is the beginning of sorrows and that means that His return is at hand! Sometimes when I look into the sky, I kind of expect to see Him comming and this place is so evil right now!

  86. OLD FASHION says:

    Thank you Dirk, most of our family and friends that have known me since childhood have told me to write a book but it is not so easy as all the miracles we experienced was ALL the hand of GOD. People seem to give the person the glory and not the LORD and that is what I dread. I am also just a sinner like everybody and only lives by the grace of GOD.
    In 1974 we were involved with a local mission station in a small holding area , most of the people living there were involved. The pastor of the mission station got a call from a town 120 miles away , who previously were connected with the mission station but moved away. They told him there was a hobo lying on the streets, drinking metholated spririts and it looked like he was dying. The pastor got into the combi and went to fetch him. When he returned with the hobo we could see that he was busy dying. He was prayed for the whole night through untill he revived. The next day we saw a different man that he himself could not believe what happened to him as he had been an alcoholic living on the streets for 22 years and was totally freed from his addiction. He stayed at the mission as a handyman and was such a blessing. This is one of the miracles that one has to see and difficult to write about.
    GOD answers all our prayers and that we can not explain HE is just so almighty, and there is nothing but nothing HE can not do. Tim is constantly on our prayer list because we know he has been through many trials and the LORD loves him and he will soon experience that love when he receives his inner healing.

  87. chris was called into the advertising standards authority to come and defend the complaints about his false prohecy and he was then asked to perform the healings he promises in the office and he baulked hence the ban n his advertisements.

    Train preachers or born agains used to tell commuters to kneel down and pray whEn accosted by thugs buT when IN the early 90`s train attacks started they were the first to bolt ut of windows.McAULEY TOLD HIS CONGREGANTS SUNDAY AFTER SUNDAY TO BELIEVE IN GOD BeCAUSE ALL THEIR NEEDS WILL BE dELIVERED BUT WHEN HE WAS ASKED HOW HE HAS ACCUMULATED ALL THIs WEALTH HE SAID HIS CONGREGANTS DIDN`T WANT TO SEE THEIR PASTOR RETIRING IN ABJECT POVERTY SO THEY CONTRIBUTED…it was not god but humans!so well with you religion but keep me out of i!

  88. Herewith a poem for Believers and the soon return of our Lord.

    When thou shalt come,
    How glad I shall be,
    That the lamp of my life
    has been blazed out for Thee.

    I shall not mind, in whatever I gave
    Labour or money, one sinner to save.

    When thou shalt come,
    How glad I shall be,
    That the lamp of my life
    has been blazed out for Thee.

  89. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim, it is true that their many socalled Christians that immitate the disciples and turn the Word of GOD for personal material gain. There is a man we know about who runs a big church in the eastern suburbs of Jhb who lives in a multi million mansion. JESUS said when HE comes many will say to him ” I rebuked demons, healed people in YOUR NAME.” Then JESUS will say to them. ” Go away from ME I do not know you ” These are false prophets the BIBLE warns us against. True disciples works for their money and provides for the needy.

    Here is a good example written by Bop and Debby Gass
    WE ALL MATTER:
    Synergy is when the whole is greater then the sum of its parts. And creating positive synergy means having the right people, in the right place, at the right time, focusing on the right goal. After World War 2, Chester Nimitz, Chief of US Naval operations, wanted to keep alive public interest in naval aviation. As a result the Blue Angels Navy Demonstration Squadron was created and performed its first exhibition within a year. To this day the team has clear objectives. They select only qualified candidates who consistently operate at peak performance. After being carefully screened, a pilot must receive 16 votes from the exsisting members. If one votes no, the candidate is out of the running. No reasons or explanations required- that’s the level of trust and respect for one another’s judgement. As a Blue Angel your teammates become like your family,and when a new member is enlisted you’re entrusting him with your life. Making the squad isn’nt a one shot deal either. You’re responsible for playing your part, demonstrating your value and pursuing excellence on a daily6 basis. You have to earn the right to wear the crest. Nothing short of total commitment is accepted. So would you qualify to be a blue angel? Are you a sole-trader or a team player? Are you loyal and reliable? When the chips are down, can others rely on you to put their interests ahead of your own?
    Is this not we should expect from the leaders of country? In S A they are totally the opposite they want to rule for personal gain only and do not care about the needy or the manner of which hospitals, schools, roads, safety as they all have at least 20 body guards. Neither do they care for the countries people except when they have a voting campaign full of idle talks and promises that does not come from their hearts. In January 28 babies in the Transkye died in the I C U section of a hospital, how do they explain that!!!!!

  90. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim this is mainly for you. In the 70’s i was invited by a friend to attend a Gospel meeting. The preacher is a very well known person from the USA.
    Needless to say I walked out of that meeting when he started asking for money to have a Jet Plane for his ministry. It is very disturbing when some of these so called preachers only preaches about material wealth and needs and self exhalting, this is so far from the TRUTH and actually causes more harm of how to live by faith. Well true believers knows that GOD supplies all our own needs and need not beg from people. When GOD calls you HE supplies everything without you having to beg people for it.
    Ron: I love your pome and is going to use it for a new song for the little ones and compose music for it . I have already done one in Afrikaans with music and lyrics. Jesus kom op die wolke
    Jesus kom op die wolke
    HY kom om my te haal
    Want HY het al my sondeskuld betaal.
    Ja HY kom op die wolke
    HY kom vir jou en my.
    Is jy ook nou gereed vriend, of gaan jy agterbly?
    Jesus kom op die wolke
    Ja HY kom vir my
    Dan sal ek ver-ewig en altyd by HOM bly.
    Our rewards are not in this world but we will receive it the day our eternal life starts.

  91. government must protect citizens by investigating charismatic churches with the aim of shutting them down if they`re not up-to-scratch!

    Just like in Germany where as soon as citizens complained about scientologists government investigated them and on finding out that they were not genuine banned them

  92. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim the founder of scientology Ron l Hubbard was not called by GOD but by satan. This is a demonic movement which denies JESUS CHRIST.
    Charismatic churches are way off the track. First of all they do no house visits on their congregation members, do not attend to their needs and neither do they supply their congregation with audited financial records every 6 months and copies given to every household congregation member. They use ” charity support which is not even 10% of their income as advertising to bamboozle people into believing that they do good. Mother Theresa who truely lived her faith never lived in luxury, did it for GOD. She was a true genuine Christian and never built big arena’s to flash herself around. She was surrounded by extremely poor people who could not give her anything and she never asked for it either, she truely lived by faith in JESUS.

  93. there`s no-one in his rightful mind who`ll go spend years at university studying religion and only to end-up preaching for free so all religions are for commercial reasons than the actual aims and purposes.Just like a law graduate start a law practice on gaduation a religious graduate start a church as a profession not a hobby!

  94. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim get the facts right. Many ministers in fulltime calling have 7 years studying Theology, including Greek , Hebrew and Aramic as the Original scripts were recorded in one of the above languages. Those ministers are fulltime employees of various churches and gets a monthly salary. They have to attend to all the problems, illnesses, etc of all the congregation members.
    Those ministers have nothing to do with the finances. Congregation members in the accounting and financing attends to the budgets and their books are all audited by an official registered with the audit council.
    The charsmatic groups do not use those managing methods. In the other churches if the minister is involved with any unethical issues he gets fired after a full investigation and proof is provided of his misconduct.

  95. Hi Tim and Old Fashion,

    Tim your words make you an open book…

    “there`s no-one in his rightful mind who`ll go spend years at university studying religion and only to end-up preaching for free.”

    Most Christians have the pleasure of studying the Scriptures all their lives (in my case 55yrs) and gladly preach for nothing except for the pure joy of presenting the Gospel to people who don’t quite understand it.
    There are many who do this and have the largest congregation in the world, namely the streets, the Prisons, townships and the hospitals. Believe it or not, a collection is never taken. Tim You would not do this because (please forgive me) you are not in your rightful mind. The day you get to know the Son of God and have a personal relationship with Him, you will gladly preach for nothing and will celebrate the fact that at last you have come to your rightful mind, exactly where God will always want you.
    Tim, Christ was prepared to go to the Cross for you, would preaching His gospel (Good news) for nothing be too much for you in return?
    A thought just struck me Tim, if you would not be prepared to preach unless you got paid, then Tim you are no better than the Prosperity Preachers.

    Old Fashion, what a pity that there is no audio facility here, would love to hear your song……

    Finally we must not equate the Television “Prosperity Preachers” with those who are truly called to Minister to God’s people. Salary is secondry and while the Labourer is worthy of his hire, I can name a dozen who would gladly preach just for the love of bringing people closer to Christ.

  96. Tim,

    In the first place, true informed believers don’t observe the sabbath on the day when the sun-god is worshipped.
    Secondly, true believers don’t maintain “churches”…that is the sinagoge of satan pretending to be ministers of God. Now this sinagoge of satan have many names (Rev.13:1) to make it look like the household of God. And the beast even do signs and wonders (Rev.13:13) so the blind will see it as the household of God. But true believers are trained by God Himself (John 6:45) and don’t have ministers, pastors, fathers, rabbis, imams, dominees,and what the hell ever else, as Christ, God Himself, is their Teacher (Math 23:1 – 10 )….so, you’ve been to the wrong places looking for God, well, that is if you ever made the effort to find Him. Your remarks witness against you that you had your eye focused on man, and not God! Repent to God, don’t repent to some man-made church, no, repent to God, not your ancestors or your ancestors ancestors, repent to God and nobody else and then only will you find the truth.
    And why should government protect citizens agains charismatic satan worshippers? They can’t even protect us against rapists and murderers and thiefs! Again i say unto you, focus your eye on God, also for protection and to hell with the state that believes it is God and promise fools a ticket to heaven!
    Then, I have been studying the things of God since 16/12/1984, not at some varsity, God Himself is my Teacher and i have been preaching HIM, not a church or religeon, but Him for FREE since that day of 16/12/1984!
    The true believers ALL sing a new song, and nobody can learn the words of that new song/new language and the words of that song goes like this: 2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    Well I am off to take the dog God gave me for a walk on this holy Sabbath of the Lord (Lord stands for owner!)
    Old fashion, sounds like you are Afrikaans, click on my name…

  97. OLD FASHION says:

    The Bible prophecies are so accurate that it is not even debatable. Anybody disputing it has no knowledge of the Scriptures. God is God and created everything beyond perfection. HE IS LORD of the time and 2011 prooves it. two thousand and ten years ago JESUS ascended to Heaven. The years before was a count down of before Christ. BC 5 was 5 years before HE was born and time stood still for the 33 years HE was on earth. This is the world calender dates all countries operate on even if they have socalled different years. No one can answer that question or tell you the years just happens to be numbered, what utter rubbish. Take your age for any year and add your birth year and the answer is the year we are in. It is logical mathematics but still interesting.

    We do not condemn preachers but we watch their lifestyles and if it does not compare to the Bible we just do not go there. But we are happy if they preach the Salvation of Calvary and that JESUS is the only way and I am sure that when congregates get to know the Bible they serve the LORD with a contrite heat.

  98. And why should government protect citizens agains charismatic satan worshippers? They can’t even protect us against rapists and murderers and thiefs

    A very good question indeed!When whites want them to protect citizens then they will… that said i`mean whites know how to make governments to work for them blacks don`t that`s why in every country you g to you`ll find whites secured,comforted and convenienced and blacks sidelined.

    Why whites are not badgering the government to protect us by banning scientologist,freemason and charismatkic churches itgs because these are their vehicles to elevate,advance and empower themselves and disempower and surbodinate blacks.You see,these rulers and all these black,Indian,Chinese etc who belong to white clubs are damaged psychologically where they start to see their communities as dumbasses and whites as some little gods and goddesses.

    McAULEY STARTED HIS CHURCH AS MILITARY BASE TO ADVANCE WHITE SUPREMACISM AND SURBODINATE BLACKS TO THEM IN RETURN NOT TO BE CALLED UP FOR BORDER MILITARY DUTIES:-THAT` WAS WHY WE REJECTED HIS CHURCH AND ALL EVANGELICALS AND SINCE NOTHING HAS CHANGED I DON`T UNDERSTAND HOW BLACKS ARE NOW TURNING TOI THIS CHURCH IN LARGE NUMBERS.I EXPECTED THEM TO START A CHURCH THAT WAS GOING TO ADVANCE BLACKNESS AND ITS CAUSE.

  99. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, we are the church, where we gather is only a building to get together for Praise and Worship and to encourage and grow in faith. As the word says we are a body, some are the eyes they see the unseen, some are the legs and we must not forget the gatherings as we have to help each other carry their burdens and so we fullfill the law of God. Each one has a different gift and calling. We reach out to those who’, we know are non believers and if they need any form of help we help them and please note ” NO CHARGE”
    we walk the talk on account of the LOVE OF THE LORD. Do unto others as you want them to do to you, treat them the way you want them to treat you.
    If you look for the good in them you will find it, if you look for the bad in them it will rize up and bite you. Many have found the LORD THIS WAY as they did not posess a Bible and knows nothing about the
    Salvation of JESUS. Our motto is: MORE OF JESUS, MORE LOVE and MORE DICIPLES. Please take note that I am not writing this to boast as your right hand should not know what the left one does we do it because we truly do not want anyone to perish but to have eternal life. If there is no response after the 3rd visit we stop visiting them but leave them with our contact numbers in the event of having had an encounter with LORD, then we return and help them to grow in faith by the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT. It is amazing how faithfulll the LORD is. HIS WORD never returns empty.

  100. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, this is just to answer your question,, (Click on you name) My grandfather from my mothers side was a full blood Irishman, my grandmother from my mothers side was Afrikaans. My grandmother from my fathers side was Austrian and my grandfather from my fathers side was a Frenchman. So you see I can not be a racist as I come from a league of nations. They were all God fearing people but not without their own short comings just like all of
    us. I am sure that it will be very enlightening to have a conversation ear to ear with each other and share the love and power of the LORD.

  101. Hi Dirk, I have a verse for you…..

    Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath. Col 2:16.

    AOV translation of same verse
    Laat niemand julle dan oordeel in spys of in drank of met betrekking tot ‘n fees of nuwemaan of sabbat nie COL 2:16.

  102. Tim,

    You have to be more clear, before I can talk to you on this matter – what is blackness and it’s cause? We can not advance ancestor worship as it is complete foolishness, neither can we advance human worship .. like for instance the way blacks see their leaders as “gods”! Chris Harny, mandela etc. are no gods, neither is mugabe or zuma or Verwoerd, vorster or de klerk – they all just humans, and on top of it, satan worshippers as all free masons and secret societies are! True believers have only one leader, and that leader is our God.

    Old Fashion,

    My dad and grandfather were german, I believe that from my mother’s side, Irish, but I am not racist, I am a realist. To return to more imortant part of our conversation, if you have a good look at the Bible, you will find that the congregation met on the Sabbath at the house of someone Acts 21:18, 28:30 Rom. 16:5 , 16:10, 16:11, Col. 4:15 etc. and then they followed this method (1 Cor. 14:21 – 37) to ensure sound teaching as nobody can afford to preach bulldust if somebody stand up and tell him that. Now, because some people noticed in the scriptures that the congregation actually met at home, the “churches” started “cell groups” to please the few wake-up ones!You see, the sinagoge was fiirst invented by a man called Izekiel ( not the prophet ) while Israel was in babylon and the “church” of today still have that same image/place in the community and never was from God and never will be. It is an instrument used by satan to spread his gospel…be honest “churches” preach whatever the government preach, some just take longer to conform after the gospel of the politicians, but eventually they all conform and are working towards the new world order. This is the one thing I can not understand, the fact that people prefer to have some human teacher who may lie to them while it is so much easier and safer to have God as teacher….the part that does not make sence to me is the fact that you say you keep an eye on the preacher to ensure sound teaching, so then, to keep an eye on the preacher, you need to be able to hear from God…so then why the preacher? Why don’t the eye-keeprs then do the teaching or share that wich they have learned from God during the week? Things just don’t add up! And everything that does not add up, is not from God…. I say this in love…there was a reason why Jesus calles the teachers of His day “snakes”…it was them who insisted that the state should have Him killed and it is still that way today….think about the day you got married and then have a look at mat. 5:33-37( pay attention to verse 37!) and James 5:12 as that is another way of crusifying Him! And yes, I would love to speak ear to ear with you as well as your preacher. 🙂

  103. Ron,

    The only way to avoid being judged by somebody about the sabbath is to observe the sabbath, what do you think? 😉 You see the new moons and other stuff you refer to, was not part of the ten commandments, and was not places with the ten commandments INSIDE the ark, but was kept outside as they were ony up to the day of reformation. See deut. 31:26 and Heb. 9:9 to 10 and things will be clear. The ten commandments were written in stone to indicate that it was permanent! But the law of moses was not on stone.

  104. Hey Dirk….. What are you smoking?

    None of the New Testament verse you gave refer to the Sabbath. To sum them up it was basicly describing Paul’s visitations to the various homes of Christians. Not a word about it being on the Sabbath.

    One excellent quotation that you did give was: 1Cor 14:33

    “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” 1 Cor 14:33

    In that verse there are 3 important statements:

    1. God is not the author of confusion. (Twisting verses on Paul’s visitation to homes as being the Sabbath day when no where does it mention the
    Sabbath…is confusion)

    2. He is the Author of Peace.

    3. The verse contains the word “Churches” If you read through this verse quickly, you will possibly miss this word without giving it much thought. We need to ask ourselves: “If they were still keeping the Sabbath why create a church? They could attend the the Temple meetings which was held on the Sabbath. But why this complete break-away to form a church?

    History tells us that they originally kept the Sabbath and also the rest of the week as worship (Days were of no concern to them, they used any day, every day to worship) They couldn’t stop worshipping – Remember some of them had seen the risen Christ – therefore life for them was one big worship service filled with Joy – “He is Risen!”

    “As in all churches of the saints”
    “Peace” was apparent in the churches and Paul here appeals to them, and says that wherever the true religion was spread, it tended to produce peace and order.

    Finally because Temple worship did not fit in with Christology (The worship of God through Christ, prompted by the Holy Spirit) the saints started to meet more and more in the household churches on the day after the Jewish Sabbath.

    Of course, questions were asked: “Are we doing the right thing?” hence Paul’s answer: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath.” Col 2:16.

    The Lord Bless and enlighten each one of us. Remember there are only “Man made” contradictions in Scripture.

  105. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk , I do have a spirit of descernment and read the Bible prayerfully. We are protected, blessed and saved by the blood of CHRIST, there are preachers called by GOD into the ministry, so was Paul called to preach the Gospel to the heathens. I can tell you of happenings that happened exactly like the LORD said it would. In 1971 I was sent back from death by GOD , I did not see HIM but I clearly heard HIM commanding the angel of death to take me back it is not my time. The nurse that attended to me had called the specialist to tell him that I have passed away, this was at 11.00 at night and had already covered me with a sheet. The dr arrived about an half hour later and then I was sitting upright fully healed. He tried some scientific explanation (he was a Jewish man) but I did not believe him as I knew exactly what had happened. I signed myself out of hospital after the 2nd day fully healed by GOD, got home and carried on with my normal daily activities and everyone who knew me found it difficult to believe that I had major surgery just a few days ago. My personal relationship with the LORD, HE maintains and I love HIM for his faithfullness and can not imagine living without HIM. HIS ways is not our ways and HE NEVER makes mistakes so therefor we have to obey and put all our trusts in HIM. HE is our maker and knows exactly for what purpose HE prepares us. When HE puts us through a test HE never lets us fail, we will just keep being tested until the victory breaks through. Many may think they can live without GOD but can they afford to die without HIM as their destination will surely be hell for ever and ever and ever. Nobody can be saved by their own works no matter how good they are, salvation is only in CHRIST JESUS who is our LORD, HE paid the price on Calvary that we should have got. HE was forsaken so that we will never be forsaken, HE went through the death for us so we may have eternal life. You know the Bible and that prooves that GOD do things that is totally unlogical to man. Imagine telling Joshua to walk around Jericho for a week and the last day they had to shout and blow the horns and the heavy structured walls of the city collapsed. This is why so many believes that the Bible is just a story book. Some scientists digging for artifacts in Israel
    discovered the colapsed walls of Jericho exactly as it is written in the Bible.
    That is why we must believe like children and not lean on our own understanding because we can never analyse GOD works it is FAR beyond our comprehension. The closer I get to GOD the more I realise how little I am and know. When GOD calls us to do something HE supplies everything we need for that assignment,
    We are HIS much loved children so we have to behave like a much loved child and obey HIM because HE is our Father.

  106. Ron,

    You are conveniently trying to avoid what I was saying. Do you have a problem with keeping the other 9 of the ten commandments? I am sure the answer is NO..if not, you are the enemy of God’s law anyway! Paul was refering to the homes where the believers cam together, go read them all again. And, secondly I was talking to Old fashion about the need to have a so called “church”, not about the sabbath. The point I wanted to make was the fact that true believers don not need human teachers as humans are liars and can not be trusted as their teaching may have contradictions. But when God is your teacher, there will be no contradictions as He can not lie.

    You asked a question/made a statement with the intention to mislead ( just like the pharisees tried with Jesus math 22;18) and I answered you with scripture you never thought off. Now lets get back to the sabbath…Math. 22:34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    Not that on those two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and that includes the the 4th one as well!

    You don’t think before you write, as there was just one temple in the country and that tenple was removed with a reason! Chew a bit on Rev 21:22 and before you jump to the wrong conclusion, have a good look at every word in Rev.1;1. many “churches/preachers” don’t keep that verse in mind and then think revelation talks about the future. Pay attention to “the things that MUST shortly take place” and if you have the means to do so, look at the greek meaning of that word “must” and you will find it’s like Must in the sense of “if you trow a stone up in the air, it MUST come down”. Sorry friend, but new testament believers did not come together in “churches” but ate the homes of believers and if thwey loved God with their whole hearts, they would do so on the 7th day sabbath and NOT on the pope’s 1st day sabbath! To say that they met on the first day of the week is a lie..to be honnest, I think they came together all seven days of the week but still observed the 7th day sabbath. For that reason Paul told them to put aside their gifts for the jews on the first day not to break the law being busy with the work of putting aside gifts for the jews on the 7th day sabbath -> 1 Cor. 16:2 . The very fact that they had to put aside part of their income on the first day, points to the fact that the first day was a working day!
    Exodus 31: 12And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
    Pay attention the the phrase “for ever” and “throughout their generations”…I am part of the “Israel of God” ( Gal. 6:16 ) and you?

  107. Old fashion, I agree with everything you say, but have a look at mat. 23 and think about the moder day “phylacteries” , the the certificates issued to pastors when they graduate and you will find them hanging in their consulting rooms or in the passage towards their consulting rooms to remind the congregation that they are in the “good hands” of a well trained pastor/reverant/whatever…I stick to my viewpoint that the churches of today are the sinagoge of satan and revelation 18:4 tell the believers to get out of it! So I did many years ago and ever since then, ALL of them “churches” treated me according to Jesus’s words John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

    and

    Rev. 13:5And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
    To shunt somebody in a sideline and ignore him, is the same as killing him/them..that is what this sign means!

  108. OLD FASHION says:

    A few years ago (This is politics and religion) when Russia was still a communist country and banned the Gospel of Christ they persecuted all the Christians. God promised brother Andrew who smuggled many Bibles into Russia. Passing through customs with a car load full of Bibles God spiritually blinded the customs officials so they could not see the Bibles and he was cleared by customs.
    The ministers of our congegration do not have certificates displayed at all, they also insist that we call them by their first names. They are humble and their attitudes are within the guidelines of the Bible. They are annointed by GOD and HE does not hand out certificates,
    The persecution started when JESUS was here as man . The scribes, fariseers of the Sanhedrin did not except JESUS and persecuted HIS followers. Saul who later became Paul was one of the prosecutors .
    This has been going on now for thousands of years and is still happening in lots of countries. Satan is our enemy and uses people by the works of evil spirits and imitates the works of the HOLY SPIRIT in the opposite direction of Heaven he makes deciples for hell. Many listen to him without knowing that they are submitted and controlled by satan just on account of not having accepted JESUS as the ONLY WAY and TRUTH to have eternal life in heaven.
    This we will proclaim until the day we are called to our eternal destination in Heaven. We are in the period of the very last days an revival is busy taking place and so is the works of the devil. It is the first time since the beginning that people are openly confessing that they are worshipping and offering to satan. Rosemary Ballingail was offered to him in the sixties in the Knysna forest and her body has not yet been found.

  109. OLD FASHION says:

    Dirk, I am sure you are aware of that the LORD is invisibly sealing HIS followers on the forehead. Satan being an imitator will soon be doing the same. The number 666 is the number of man and 7 is the number of GOD.
    a six can never become a seven and that is why the lost ones will have a mark made by man. They already are busy making a chip to be implanted either on your hand or your forehead that will be read by a digital sensor. If you do not have that you will not be able to buy anything or travel anywhere.
    It will not last very long as GOD always intervenes at the right time, HE is never too late and promised that we won’t even loose a hair without HIS knowledge as HE has counted them.

  110. You have to be more clear, before I can talk to you on this matter – what is blackness and it’s cause? We can not advance ancestor worship as it is complete foolishness,

    I`M NOT GOING TO DELVE INTO THIS DISCOURS HEAD AND TOE BECAUSE IT IS OF NO INTEREST TO THIS COUNTRY NOR THE CONTINENT IN THAT MATTER BE AUSE OUR MOST PRESSING PROBLEMS IS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED ONES NOT RELIGIOSLY!

    aFRIKAANERS HAD THE BROEDERBOND AND NGK TO ADVANCE THEIR CAUSE AND GOALS AND THAT`S WHHERE I`M COMING FROM WHEN REFERRING TO THE BLACK CAUSE.THE LACK OF SUCH A CAUSE BASED ON THE ELEVATION AND ASCENDING OF BLACKNESS AND ITS POLITICAL GOALS IS WHAT LEADS BLACKS TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH EACH OTHER AND RUN TO WHITES ONLY TO BE COLONISED AND BRAINWASHED!

  111. Old fashion

    I am aware of that interpretaion of that part of revelation but do not buy it – one of the problems I have with the so called “church”) and I do not buy it because:
    1. That is a carnal interpretation of the scripture while Jesus clearly said John6:63 “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. ”
    The book of revelation contain a series of “signs” that was shown to John and these signs need interpretation. Tink logically…the only sin that can not be forgiven is the sin against the Holy Spirit and getting number on you right hand or forehead surely is not the sin against the Holy Spirit , is it? All of us already have a number in our ID books, now what is the difference, having a number on your right hand or in your pocket on the first page of your ID document? That interpretaion is NOT THE TRUTH, shake that preacher off ! Have a look at Deut 6:6-9 and allow the Spirit of God to do the teaching.

    The Russions did not have a problem with the gospel as they did not believe in God anyway..they had a problem with people gathering to have meetings that could be a danger to the state…not the gospel. The way people carry on about “going to church” it sounds like the first commandment was “thou shalt go to church and the second commandement is thou shalt go to church” through to the tenth commandement??? No! That’s not the way it is. The so called “church” is not from God but from the devil. I can tell you never bothered to click on my name and are afraid to be confronted by the truth. Again I ask of you to click on my name above this post and you will see what is happening around you….well you do understand afrikaans hey? It is all written in Afrikaans

  112. WHY JESUS IS THE WAY AND NOT THE ANC OR ANYBODY ELSE:

    Humans do not allow God to do things for them. They want to be gods themselves and therefore their preachers/teachers also preach/teach that murderers, thiefs, liars etc. have the image of the Holy God! (How they come to that conclusion, I just don’t know, as humans think-the mark on the forehead- and do-the mark on the right hand- as the devil wants them to think and do since sin.> Gen. 3:6!)
    SDeeing that God created all things, even man, it means that He can do all things and does not need the services of man in any way. He does not need man to go to church to sing a couple of songs, say a couple of prayers and listen to the bull of a preacher. The way God see religion is that man declare Him their “king” with the mouth while crowning Him with thorns and giving Him a reed as cepter! But man is so blind that they can not see what they do! They expect God to be very impressed with all their religios activities instead of allowing Him to correct what went wrong with them. fact is that man, with all his religios activities are actually “killing” God in regard to themselves for NOT putting Him in the place of GOD by allowing Him to fix them up and MAKE them holy…no they would rather try to make themselves holy while they cant.

    Now seeing man is so blind, God came to this planet as a man and allowed man to do to Him what they did so they can see who they are and can see for themselves that they in fact “dead” God. It cost Him His life, but it had to be explained so man can see for himself what he is doing to God.

    I, Dirk, have it agains the preachers that they teach that God, named Yeshua/Jesus died FOR our sins. That is not true! He died because WE KILLED HIM! He did not come here and just dropped dead, NO WE KILLED HIM! Neither did He kill Himself, NO, the religious leaders insisted at the state to have Him killed! That is what happened and what is still happening today!
    Nobody else delivered that message..not budha, not muhamed or confusios or who ever else, God Himself came here, allowed us humans to do to His flesh what we do to Him spiritually so we can see who we are and for that reason He is the only Way to peace with God. ( See Isiah 53 ! )

  113. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim, people have are given freedom of choice by GOD, if people look to others for their comforts or support they will be disappointed as GOD tells us nobody is good only the LORD and disappointment is a gaurantee when we are horizontal. Think the things of above (vertical) and not that which is of the world by man and evil forces. Is there sickness in Heaven: NO. Is there crime in Heaven: NO. Is there corruption in Heaven, NO. Where GOD rules in total control there is eternal joy, peace and happiness. This is no far fetched story it is true.

    If those who worship ancesterol spirits did not believe that the spirit world is true, why do they do that then. Pity because again it is the big evil imatator that cons them. We never use to vote but we surely will with the next election to get these blasphemous leaders that allows the evil spirits to control events out of reign.
    The LORD will tell us what to do, if we have to vote and for whom, should we get no answer we will not be voting. Do not think that we mention this because we are afraid or fear any human, no but for those who has very little faith can find some comfort in a ruling party that really cares.

  114. OLD FASHION,

    You will never again find a ruling party that cares as none of the parties standing today cares to follow the word of God ( Deut. 17:15 onwards and Josua 23: 6 onwards ) but are ALL working towrds tghe same point called the new world order of the free masons of whom they are all part! Do you really believe that the DA who previously had many names since nogal “sir” de villiers graaf honnestly believed that blacks have what it takes to rule? The only ones who did care were the so-called and hated “right wingers” ( Ecc. 10:2 ) who knew it is unfair to give a 6 year child the opportunity to drive the school bus to school as it is clear that that child behind the controls will kill all passengers! It is just as unfait to give the country to people who have no idea how things work and expect of them to succeed!

    Tim,

    Every time you make a post, you make it clear that you blacks don’t even understand a down to earth conversation – if you can’t even grasp the things down here, how will I be able to explain the things from above ?

    Fool, it was the broederbond and the NGK church that convinced the brainless non-thinking masses of whites that it is the right thing to give this country to a buch of idiots to rule and then expect of them to succeed…all they will do is to turn it into a second zim! I take pleasure to se that happen so alll those who voted “YES” in 1994 can have their fair share of black on white violence and eat the fruits of their foolish vote! ( your so called struggle had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the whites voted “YES” to de klerk! They voted yes because the broederbond and the broederbond’s NG kerk told them to do so!)

  115. Firstly Dirk, I don’t keep the 10 Commandments, but I do try to keep 9 of them.

    Dirk, when you say that the Ten Commandments apply to today just as they did when God gave them to Israel.

    I then need to ask you when last did you stone someone?

    Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; Exodus 20:7

    Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Lev 24:16

    Paul Tells us: “Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ. Rom 7:4

    Why should God want us dead to the Law? Because Sins worked in our members
    to bring forth fruit unto death.

    Because of our disobedience we were the enemies of God therefore the Law brought death. BUT! “While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. Rom 5:10

    Our situation now is: “But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead
    we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
    Rom7:4-6

    The above verse tells us that we are DEAD to the Law, (The Oldness of the Letter) therefore we should serve Him in the Newness of the Spirit (Namely we have become New Creatures filled with the Holy Spirit)

    Now Dirk, The Book of Acts tells us about work the Apostles accomplished. We see that that they went to Synagogues and the Temple preaching and making disciples where they could. That’s why it is called the Acts of the Apostles.

    After that we have the epistles and writings of Paul, Peter, John etc. These were instructions on Church life and behaviour. BUT NOT one word about the 7th Day.
    Sabbath.

    So Dirk, Look in the King James or the AOV. I want you to find the word “Sabbath”
    in any of their instructions on Church Behaviour?
    The only place you will find it is in ”Col 2:16” which I have mentioned before:

    “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath.”

    I find it strange that if the Sabbath still applies to today, that there is no mention of it.
    Except to say let no man judge you in respect of the Sabbath

    Finally, instructions from the Apostles in the New Testament does insist on keeping 9 commandments, but again the Sabbath is not mentioned except where it says not to let a man judge you concerning the Sabbath.

    Dirk if you still insist that the Ten commandments apply to today, then my friend
    You better start gathering stones to throw at all Blasphemers. Because as I understand it, if you fail in one commandment you fail in them all.
    That my friend is why Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law. Gal 3:13

  116. Ron

    You are a diciple of satan with the statements you come up with! I explained about the law of moses that is no longer applicable as the letter to the hebrews also teach with the scriptures as quotes in my previous posts. Paul does not at all say that the law is no longer valid, neither does Jesus say so!

    The part that you don’t ubderstand is the fact that God now makes the law my desire by writing it on my heart ( Heb 8:10 ) and when I WANT to keep the law because it is my desire, I am free from the WORKS of the law! That’s very logic, is it not?

    Then about the synagoge, even jesus went there, and what’s the big deal, this whole planet is filled with sin, but Jesus still came here, so why not go to satan’s synagoge and I trust you’ve noticed that they went to the synagoge on the sabbath, hey?

    Neither Jesus or Paul or anybody else declared the law no longer applicable, you are a liar and a deciple of satan! You will be called the least

    Mat. 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

  117. Ron,

    About no word mentioned about the seventh day…that is very logig as you are reading the writings of people who loved the Lord as well as His commandments and therefore it was just excepted that all that behaviour you refer to was meant for the sabbath. If those were the writings of people like you who try to find reason NOT TO KEEP the law, there was a need to keep mentiioning the sabbath. Does that make sence?

  118. OLD FASHION says:

    Jesus came to fulfill the law but also to save us from the wrath of GOD for not keeping the law. The HOLY SPIRIT was sent to guide us, teach us, and convict us daily of our wrongs that we have to repent with and confess and no longer do that particular wrong thing. This is how we grow in faith and get to love GOD more and more each day for HIS forgiveness and love not to punish us when we repent and no longer holds our wrongs against us.
    The law is the quideline of sin and we measure our wrongs against the Commandments of GOD, if it was not for HIS Law how would we know and realise that we are sinners.? Even if our sins was as scarlet JESUS washes us whiter then snow so we can become ,more like HIM. This is done by the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT and we become a new creature.

  119. Ron

    I just noticed another part of your post when comming here to see what OLD Fashion wrote…the part about stoning people….you know very well that that was not written on stone. Like I explained before, only the law on stone was permanent, not the rest! They were given with one purpose…and that is so man can see that keeping a law does not make a person holy! Keeping a law, does not change the condition of my sinful heart, but when God write His law on my heart and make it my desire, I become whole and holy, not because I keep the law but because the law is now my natural desire. And like OLD FASHION said above, that makes the child of God a new creature speaking a new language and singing a new song, that new song that no man can learn (Rev 14:3 ) because it is the gift of the Holy Spirit…David also sang that new song..Ps.40:4 (in the Afrikaans bible – some verses in the english versions differ from the afrikaans in psalms).
    Unless somebodysing that new song, he is lost…or let me put that another way…if somebody does not speak that new language, it’s a sign that such a person is still lost and need to be born again/born in the spirit.

  120. Dirk, I have found that when a peopl are confronted with clear logic, they then resort to name calling in order to distract everyone from the fact that their part of the discussion is found wanting.

    1. Firstly Dirk the entire Law stands. It is perfect in everything it says.

    2. Sadly neither you, me or anyone else is able to keep it. We all fail.

    3. It was given to show the world what God’s standards are.

    4.To attain eternal life and share fellowship with God through keeping the law
    was and always will be impossible. Ecc 7:20

    5. Certainly, there is a curse on all who rely on their own efforts to live according to the Law, because when we fail, Scripture says we are cursed.

    6. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: Gal 3:13. God in His mercy then allowed His Son to save us from the curse

    7. The penalty of the Law is death, and has been paid in full on our behalf by Christ therefore the Penalty for failing to keep the law, no longer applies to us.

    Anyone who denies these truths and attempts to keep the Law in order to be saved is doomed to a lost eternity.

    8. But we are covered by Christ’s atoning death, that we might live.

    Regarding the Sabbath, again you are assuming and reading words that don’t exist
    when you say that the visitations by Peter, Paul etc. was on the Sabbath.
    This is pure assumption on your part. (I read what the word says and not read into it to prove a theory)

    Now Dirk having had all our trespasses cleansed, if you wish to keep going back to the Law, you may. But for me I wish to remain clear of the Sabbath with all it’s rules and regulations, which is impossible to keep. If we were able to keep all these Laws then Christ would have died for nothing.

    Finally Dirk, God has already written a New Covenant Read this through a couple of times. IT IS GOOD NEWS.
    “For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that He saith, A NEW COVENANT – HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYES AND WAXETH OLD, IS READY TO VANISH Hebrews 8:12-13

    Trust you read all of this Dirk, you can now go back to calling me names.
    But don’t judge me for not keeping the Sabbath when Scripture clearly says
    You may not . “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath.

  121. Ron,

    Now I can alomost agree with you fully. Just one thing, visitations are not part of observing the sabbath. You can go visit anybody any day of the week you like, but the gongregations at home of those gongregations mentioned, took place on the sabbath. If they also came together on other days of the week, it had nothing to do with observing the sabbath.

    My problem with observing the sabbath on a sunday, is the fact that the cursed anti-Christ-pope decided to change all that and the reason was to show that “the church” has more power over the people than God! Now to HELL with the pope!

    I fully agree that that none of us can keep the law, but we are NOT ALLOWED TO CHANGE the law! Now declaring the sabbath should take place on another day than the one God said it should be is CHANGING THE LAW and then for me to follow such instruction means that I aggree with the devil who CHANGED IT!

    Let me make it clear, nobody will enter His kindom by keeping the sabbath, but nobody may change any part of the law and that is important and actually the point I want to bring accross. Now if any man love the Lord, SUCH A MAN/WOMAN WILL NOT FOLLOW THE DEVIL who changed any part of the law even if such a man/woman realize that they are not able to keep the law.

    Dan. 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    It is the anti-Christ who will change the law and also the anti-Christ who will folow! An the anti-Christ is the so called “chrches” of today!

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that anti-christ shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    19 THEY WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    About the the death of Christ…He did not kill Himself! He did not just drop dead….us humans killed Him and the “Church leaders” of that time as well as today are the ones who caused their followers to INSIST that He be killed! In other words, he did not die FOR our sins, but died BECAUSE of our sins for our sins. These liar churches never make this point clear as they know they are guilty even still today!

    Isiah 53:11…….by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.( he shall bear the spiritual sin against the father in His flesh! Amazing! A very clever legal manuver putting satan in checkmate)
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

  122. Dirk, your opening statement shows that you are still assuming that it was on the Sabbath that they met at their houses. YES, they may have but unless it says so I have no authority to say or assume it does.

    Next:
    No one has changed the Laws that God made…. That’s impossible. His Laws
    inform us of His high Standards and what He expects of us… That can never be changed…. If we could change them to suit ourselves, then Christ came to die for us for nothing.

    “Ou Broer” God made two covenants with mankind. The first was and is impossible to keep. But it is there to show us the high Standards that God has and is impossible for mere man to keep.
    The second covenant God has with Mankind is a covenant that requires faith to believe and accept. Namely, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” This is the covenant we have with Him now. The rules, regulations have been accounted for through Jesus Christ who has paid the debt we owe. God simply asks both Jew and Gentile to accept the offer.
    Yes! The rules and regulations are still there, but they no longer apply to us because we stand on the rock of Christ and no man can lay any other foundation that is already laid.
    God acknowledges our weak attempts at trying to please Him, but the moment we insist that by keeping rules and regulations we are in favour with God – WE FAIL. “I have no other argument, I have no other plea, but that Jesus died for you and He died for me” Einde van storie.

  123. I don’t assume like the preachers do to hide the fact that they obeuy the state rather than God! Is it not a fact that the state/world by law declared sunday, the first day of the week, as the sabbath?
    I don’t see how the man who wrote (keep in mind that Paul had no idea that his writings would one day become part of God’s Word!) the next would observe the sabbath on the first day:1 Kor 4:6 HIERDIE dinge, broeders, het ek op myself en Apollos toegepas om julle ontwil, dat julle aan ons kan leer om nie te dink bo wat geskrywe is nie, sodat …….

    6And these things, brethren, I have in a figuratively applied to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order…… NASB remember, rthat when Paul wrote these things, there was only the old testament to refer to…therefore, I do not assume any thing, it’s logic that they would stick to the Word they had at that time.

    Fact is that acording to the Bible the new day starts at sundown and end the next day at sundown. But this world changed it to midnight. Acording to the Bible God declared the seventh day holy, but this world declared the first day holy. I am not part of this world because a friend of this world is an enemy of God.

    No, Jesus did NOT die FOR me, it was BECAUSE of my sin and the sin of the rest of this world that He was murdered..He did not just die, He was murdered and this is a very important fact and important that we should be able to acknowledge how sinfull we all are before their can be salvation. If any man can not see how sinfull he is and what the price was that God had to pay to make it clear, such a man does not yet believe the message the Son of man delivered….a message that cost Him a very painfull death to deliver; but it had to be done as no other way would explain what needed to be explained and because of that message He delivered, there is NO OTHER WAY to salvation except HIM! (And Ron, I write these things, not because I want to argue with you, but because I want to use this opportunity to spead this message to all who may read it as there are many who can not understand why Jesus is the ONLY way!)

    May God bless you, and give you peace, and may those who have eyes to see, see; and may those who have ears to hear, hear as the end is near!

  124. OLD FASHION says:

    Hi Dirk and Ron, if we truly led by the Comforter the Holy Spirit we should agree as God can not lie. The Scripture warns us against division , that comes from hell. This was exactly the cause of so many denominations. This happens when we do not live by the Holy Spirit when we lean on our own understanding and lack of Love the way the LORD wants us to be. JESUS own words are. “You must love your enemies” meaning our fellow human beings and not evil spirits. Why does JESUS deliver people from demon possession ? because HE loves us all.

  125. If religion in politic is meant to assist politics to create an uncontaminated,unpollutted and non-;pervetted environment then I welcome it!

    For an example this government is battling to implement its moral regeneration programme an it needs religion to come-in and assist it so that it can know what`s morally impugnant and acceptable!

    Is abortion for an example a moral exercise that should be legalised or not but if it is meant to assist with the implanting of an ideology on the minds of citizens how repugnant it might be like in the past religion assisted an ideology which justified its injustices,attrocities,inhumanities and inequalities but forbid others from practicing those against white

  126. Hi Dirk and Old Fashion.

    As I read your posts, I note that we are on the same footing regarding the Law and Salvation. We are also inclined to walk in circles. I think we do this because these two subjects are so vast that we cannot do them justice with our finite minds. Another amazing thing is that they are so simple that even a child can understand them. Jude in his doxology says it all:

    “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
    To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.” Jude 1:24-25.

    I believe Old fashion that you and I agree on the Sabbath (Saturday) has fallen away through the New Covenant that God has written. I would add to this and I believe Dirk would agree with SOME of what I write now.

    For every true child of God, every day has become a day of worship.

    BUT!

    “But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”
    Gal 4:9-11.

    Dirk, God will deal with what the Pope and false teachers have said, we must just be careful that like the millions who believe the Popes and false teachers, that we (all of us) are not caught up with man made heresies.

    Through the years of my studies – 55 years (Theological College – Greek, Hebrew, Old and New Testament theology, etc. etc) I have one principal that I stick to when attempting to prove a doctrine. Should I have 100 verses that prove my theory, but find only 1 that disagrees with it. I will rather throw away the 100. “When in doubt, leave it out”

    Old Fashion is 100% correct when he talks about allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us.
    Yet!…… Sadly there are divisions and we have been commissioned to stand firm and defend the faith. “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Gal 5:1.

    Dirk… The Bondage that we experience as Christian, is when we include Politics while discussing theology. The two will never meet. Both are highly charged emotions and we probably have a better chance of mixing oil with water. hence all the “Merry-go-round” discussions on Biblical and Political beliefs, yet….. really getting us no where.

    I have no idea whether both of you have the e-Sword program or not. I would highly recommend it. It is free and has dozens of Bibles, Commentaries, Dictionaries etc. where you are able to look them up at the click of your mouse.
    Simply go into Internet Explorer type in http://www.esword and download as many Bibles, commentaries, Dictionaries etc etc.. you wish. The Program is the finest Biblical program available and is free.

  127. OLD FASHION says:

    I like Tim’s comment that should our rulers truly fear and trust GOD and rule according to HIS W:ORD then he welcomes it and so do we. Then our country will prosper and the LORD will pour HIS Blessings on our country. What GOD can do is beyond our imagination NOTHING is impossible for GOD but seems illogical to us. There are two incidents that really stands out as illogical. I have mentioned it before God using Joshua in the battle of Jericho and Gideon had to go into the camp of the enemy to get confirmation from GOD to destroy the enemy. The enemies were the godless nation that served idols and hated GOD’s people. The same has happened all through the ages the wall of Germany was also broken down between the communist and the enlightened after world war 2. Many humans have human walls around their hearts for self protection and self esteem and only JESUS can break that wall to enable us to hear HIS voice of love, repentance and deliverance. The Israelites were distrusting GOD in the dessert and it took them 40 years in stead of 40 days to reach the promised land. Why do we do the same and elongate our own salvation.? GOD will never ever ignore a prayer from a contrite heart that truly seeks HIM HE will reveal HIMSELF to those who call upon HIM. The stupidity of the human race is to reject goodness by not believing that JESUS has come to set us free from all forms of bondage and give us life in abundance and heaven our eternal destination.

  128. OLD FASHION,

    Yes the scripture does warn us against devision, but the scripture also warns me that God will hold me resposible if I should dare to keep quiet when I should speak out and tell Israel where they go wrong! If the Israel of God then choose to put their fingers in their ears, I am guiltless.

    Now I get the feeling that you and Ron are of the opinion that observing the sabbath is bondage as I get this bondage story evey now and then. That is a lie from satan as NONE of those 10 laws written on stone brings bondage…ALL of them brings total freedom. Psalm 119 refer to that law, written in stone with the finger of God, in every single verse and we all know Psalm 119 is the longest one of them all. The law of moses is NOT part of that law and was not written on stone as it was not meant to be permanent – I already explained the purpose for that.

    Ron

    I am very glad you mentioned that the things of God will never meet with politicts. Therefore I am NOT a satanic and foolish democrat – I won’t take part in democracy as I am a theocrat! For that reason I also refuse to bend my knee for the politicians sabbath on sunday when the HARLOT of revelation and the rest of this world have their day of rest!

    Ron and OLD FASHION, today you are going to answer the following two questions to yourself, not to me, but to yourself and God. Today you will have to once and for all decide if your “church” is part of the harlot of revelation or not and here are two signs by wich you can know the truth:

    This is God’s solution, not just to our south african problem, but this speaks to every nation and is NOT RACIST. If a Zulu read this, he should obey if he wants peace, no matter what nation or race, if he wants peace and wants rule according to God’s will he should obey this:
    1.
    Deut. 17:14When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; 15Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. 16But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. 17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. 18And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: 19And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: 20That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

    And when it comes to heathen nations the following logic is applicable:

    Ex. 23:32Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. 33They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    If your “church” does not like the scripture above, and calls it racist, your “church” is NOT the true church, but is the harlot of revelation because it’s whoring around with the rulers of darkness of this world! You are wasting time, effort and breath offering God or me any excuse for your “church’s” conduct. It’s the harlot of revelation that leads you into a snare!
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    2.

    Now, even if your “church” is a “racist chruch” according to this world and do preach to above, but do NOT keep/observe the sabbath onn the day GOD blessed and set aside to be a day of rest for you, then also it is the harlot of revelation whoreing with the rulers of darkness of this world because then your “church” do not honnor God, but rather honnor the rulers of darkness of this world because it is written:

    12And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

    Now, out of this scripture above, it is clear that to cut somebody off, or by ignoring a person, is the same as putting such a person to death! (Have another look at my previous post about the sin of man against the Father that Jesus bore in His flesh. You don’t need to physically kill somebody to put him to death – Rev. 13:13-17 speaks of the same principle)
    Again, if your “church” agree that all the rest of the law written by God’s finger in stone are applicable, but not the fourth one, it is a sign that your “church” is the harlot as it follows the rulers of darness of this world! There is no excuse!

    Tim,

    Yes, the rulers o darkness of this world, even your heathen zuma-freak will ask “churches”, just like the previous NAT government after Verwoerd did, to proclaim their “gospel” from time to time as the “churches” of today are as part of the media as the TV, radio and news papers are!

    There is a reason why they all seperated Verwoerd as the culpret and cause of all evil according to them, because Verwoerd’s plan was more in line with the Word of God than anybody else and would have worked best!

    If any man or “church” think they know better than God, they are the enemy of God! There is no excuse.

  129. OLD FASHION says:

    Jesus calls the church HIS bride, we are the church, following HIM by the power of the Holy Spirit HE annointed us with. HIS bride will be gathered from accross the whole world and from all nations. Speak to a true reborn Christian that is guided by the Holy Spirit, we speak the same language and share the same joy. We encourage and help one another, strengthen the weak and help others to carry their burdens. See that no one pays back wrong with wrong, but at all times make it your aim to do good to one another and to all people. How can we do that if we do not gather together at least once a week and how will we know what others needs are.?

  130. OLD FASHION

    The only ones with everlasting NEEDS/HUNGER/NAKEDNESS are the lost! Those of us who are part of the Israel of God have Him looking after our needs, and before we ask, He already listened! What an awesome God we have!

    Yes, here is the 666; man was made on day 6 and after sin God gave them 6 days to gather their food/oil/whatever need, and He gave them 6 senses to do that with as they can 1. see 2. hear 3. feel. 4 smell. 5 feel and 6. think/speak words as this is what they chose to be able to do, to THINK for themselves..see Gen. 3:6 ( problem is that without God, man will think/speak words of death instead of life )

    When the children of God come together on the seventh day, they come together to bring glory to God, not to ask for more things to cover their nakedness as they are not naked because God made them dresses and CLOTHED them with it (Gen 3:21) as well…He did not give it to them so they have to put it on themselves, no, He made it and clothed them with it as well! And that is the good news we have to tell others about, they don’t have make themselves holy, God will do that FOR them if only they will repent to Him, not to their “church or pastor” but repent to God, then He will clothe them with the new dress He made and then He will but a new song in their mouth as well, everybody will see it and fear and trust in God!

    Ps. 40:3And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

  131. OLD FASHION,

    I fogot to mention…if I don’t hear somebody sing the words of the new song, I know they need GOD! This is the way I know who are missionaries and who the missionfields are and nobody can mislead me as this words of this new song are words nobody can learn ( Rev. 14:3 ) because God is the One who puts them into the mouths of His children! Wonderfull!

  132. when it comes to voting i don`t care about the person but about their loyalty,allegiancy and patriotism.

    They can be communists,atheists,christians,nazis,rightwingers etc it matters less to me because security of our state,health,corporacy,industry security etc it`s what matters to me.So in the past i care less about who was the president but about safety and secuity and my cup-a-soup and slice of bread at school.

  133. OLD FASHION says:

    So0rry to disappoint you Tim but if GOD is shut out so HE shuts of Blessings and all turns into chaos as it is at the moment, They took JESUS out of the schools, hospitals and parlement etc and look at the result crime and corruption immorality at its peak. Just saw an article this morning in the Daily Sun 50 young schoolgirls pregnant in one school alone. 28 in a smaller school in Limpopo and apparently many around the country. Our country’s social condition is on par with Sodom and Gomora and nobody but nobody can deny it the proof is in the pudding. So I say no to GODLESS rulers.
    God fearing people put GOD first in their lives , there fellow men second and themselves last. Our president earns more then any other country’s and what is done for the poor, just a noize making promises.

  134. Dirk, really what are you smoking?

    Your rambling and ravings on Deu 17, Exo 23 and Rev 17 is God’s word to Israel when they came out of the Egyptian bondage. It is in no way related to the Church, The Bride of Christ. Your expos’e of those chapters as related to the Church is the the most ridiculous I have ever read. I take back my previous statement that you are on the same road that I am on regarding theology. I also detect a change from letter to letter in your beliefs and attitudes, that continually turns back to your twisted thoughts on apartheid politics and religion. I corrected you once in your Pharasaic attitude towards others. I’ll not waste my time again.

    Old Fashion.

    I don’t know your thoughts on Dirk’s ravings on Deut 17 etc? But I know of better and more instructive discussions than I get here. All attempts at reaching out to Dirk have been wasted.

    So Dirk you can stroke your ego and wish me straight to Hell, continue to call me names and place me on the same level as Satan, even shout good riddance. But from this quarter you will no longer receive sound advice.

  135. OLD FASHION says:

    Can anybody tell me what god this most despotc rulers of our country serve, ? Everything is being demolished, chaos everywhere, so he must be the worst god in goddom

  136. TIM,

    So who do you have in mind to vote for? Who do you think will put your slice of bread next to your cup-o-soup? After thousands of years of ancestor worship, when do you think was the time this country had the safety and security? Who do you think have the patriotism and loyalty you want to see in a president? Are you old enough to really know when this country had it’s best time?

    When I was a kid during the early 60’s a coke was 6p and later 6c, year in and year out, a bread was 9c year in and year out, a pound of sugar was 5c year in and year out and my moher could send me to the market in Nelspruit with R1 to buy our vegetables for the weeK..yaer in and year out! Prices never went up until john vorster took the seat – what does that tell you?

    Go against God for a hand full of silver coins and you hang yourself! Bottom line!

    Zec. 11: 9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
    10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
    11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

    12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

    13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

    14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

    Mat. 26:14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests,
    15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
    16 And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    The Lord God was valued at only 30 pieces of silver! Amaizingly cheap! So do all who love money value Him cheap to tgheir own downfall! Kaas dit en geniet! Kry vir julle, God veragters!

  137. TIM,

    So who do you have in mind to vote for? Who do you think will put your slice of bread next to your cup-o-soup? After thousands of years of ancestor worship, when do you think was the time this country had the safety and security? Who do you think have the patriotism and loyalty you want to see in a president? Are you old enough to really know when this country had it’s best time?

    When I was a kid during the early 60?s a coke was 6p and later 6c, year in and year out, a bread was 9c year in and year out, a pound of sugar was 5c year in and year out and my moher could send me to the market in Nelspruit with R1 to buy our vegetables for the weeK..yaer in and year out! Prices never went up until john vorster took the seat – what does that tell you?

    Go against God for a hand full of silver coins and you hang yourself! Bottom line!

    Zec. 11: 9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
    10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
    11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

    12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

    13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

    14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

    Mat. 26:14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests,
    15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
    16 And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.
    The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

    The Lord God was valued at only 30 pieces of silver! Amaizingly cheap! So do all who love money value Him cheap to tgheir own downfall! Kaas dit en geniet! Kry vir julle, God veragters!

  138. Ron

    The Word of God is for all times and all people…I can see you are the kind who cpmpletely under estimate God…and Ron, I don’t take advise from foolish theologians who estimate the value of God at 30 pieces of silver!

    The way you read your Bible, nothing is for you as there is not one chapter for South Africans! Seeing you are not Roman, the letter to the Romans is not for you and so on and so on? You are correct about one thing, we are NOT on the same level, that is for sure! My previous post was meant for you also! Now I will shake your dust off my feet!

  139. OLD FASHION

    Like the super-fool Alfred Mzo once said; “we find ( imagine, the man was searching for himself, and wow, he found that he was in africa!) ourselves in Africa, therefore we do things the way it is done in Africa”. Now the way things are done in africa is to see how the sangoma’s bones fall! A sangoma is that kind of guy who book a worker off sick for three months because of his headache caused by “thinking too much”! 🙂 For that reason, when in africa, you don’t do any thinking as that cause headaches…rather see how the sangoma’s bones fall and if that does’nt work out, you call it “bad luck” and apartheid is to blame for all the “bad luck” , see. Even after centuries of “bad luck” before apartheid, the ancestors still don’t get blamed…i would like to know who was balmed for all the “bad luck” before the forst white man arrived, but nobody had a way of recording anyhing so we won’t ever know…maybe johnny clegg will give his answer with his “a country imagined”…that is, if any form of imagination can be found in africa as imagination may cause headaches! 😉 I get the impression that this thread is now closed.

  140. OLD FASHION says:

    We are fully aware of all these happenings as it is happening more often all the time, Jesus empowers us by HIS own Spirit against these acts and HE calls them scorpions and snakes. What is most amazing that when they try their socalled curses or poison (we have experienced this ourselves) upon the children of GOD , the curse hits them and GOD turns the curse into a Blessing for us. Three years ago we were acqainted with a white person for counseling, this lady never mentioned that she is involved with sangoma ‘s but the LORD showed me in a dream that she does and warned us that she was intending to poison the people who gave her a home and looked after her. After the dream I informed the people she was living at about her actions and guess what , she was busy poisoning them slowly hoping that she will inherrit their possessions as they do not have any children. They were covered in the blood of CHRIST and it had no effect on them. In the dream I saw that she had killed 3 men, and during this period we discovered that she had been married 4 times and 3 of her husbands died very shortly after their marriage. We had food like sugar, rice curry powders etc analysed by laboratories and discovered poison in the spices she use to buy.
    Needless to say she did not repent but is out of our lives. The couple she was living with are dedicated to JESUS and they did not want to press charges but manage to get an court order forbidding her to have contact with them. In Kwasizu Natal some of these witchcraft , sangoma practitions were delivered from these evil spirits by the Power of GOD . their appearances before and immediately after was so different like darkness turning into light. So we do not have to fear any of that as JESUS has the victiory over them and gives us HIS power to trample on these evil spirits.
    Like I said HE turns those curses against HIS children into a blessing.

  141. What`s said its that whites,indians and coloureds didn`t discern the black man`s life but relied on what they were told that blacks live an unhygienic,immoral and crime infested lives and nothing could be further from the truth!

    Neighbourhood watches were started by blacks way back in the 60`s as a way of creating jobs for rural men to prevent them from rotten in the streets when they offered them jobs to guard their township.On FRIDAYS OR MONTH-END MOTHER AND FATHER LOCKED THEMSELVES IN THE LOUNGE AND BUDGET THEIR WAGES AND SALARIES AND GO SHOP ON SATURDAYS FROM A LIST THEY DREW-UP THE PREVIUOS NIGHT OF ITEMS THAT WERE RUNNING SHORT!When I used to hear them lecturing blacks about how to run a home…telling them about not having children you can

  142. …telling them about not having children you cannot feed,educate,cloth…and this was precisely what blacks were doing.you hardly find a house with more than four kids in the townships!

  143. Tim,

    I find that strange…I have been to townships around Pretoria, to townships in Gauteng, tembisa, katlehong, soweto, davyton, worked at natalspruit hospital and found that the people breed like rats, i could hardly find a household with less than 4 kids! Now here in the rurla areas it is even worse, looks like black people just don’t think ahead, and just have kids withou caring how the hell they are going to feed them all! Must be because, like the sangoma said, because thinking cause headaches!

    Let me put it to you straight, blacks bread themselves into poverty! The reason is that children are supposed to becoma a pension fund but the reality is that every child starts to bread the moment he is old enough to put his pension in place and the result is that the pension never materialise as there are too many mouths to feed and not enough to send back home to feed the retired parents…and because thinking cause headaches, after centuries nobody noticed that the african pension-fund sysrtem don’t work!

  144. I have been to white homes in europe and the west and i found whites there are not the high class they purporte to be in africa but ordinary people just lie blacks and coloureds and indians in the middleeast and many of them live on government subsidies especially in britain.whites leave south africa to go live on subsidies in britain like the woman who in south africa she was known as a socialite and hobnobbed with the whos who of south africa but then she was forced to run due to threats and a week of her arrival in britain she as a nanny for a middle-income family.whites with their wining and dining habit are the most unhealthy an unhygienic people in this world!

  145. OLD FASHION says:

    Tim you are right again, the black pension fund system can never work. In the year 1910 our population was just under 6 million in the year 2004 the SA population was over 47 million , what does this tell you. Of the 47 milion during that period 8 million emmigrated and 7 million immegrated the illegal immigrants have not been included. The average white and indian families were 5 and the blacks almost 12per family The deaths recorded during that period was over 18 million and births 59 million. This again is proof in the pudding.

  146. Tim

    you must be thinking that us whites are as stupid as you are with the bull you talk ( but the again, a black face can’t go red when being stupid!) about whites going to england to live on grants…only enliish can go live on grants there, other whites have to satify the english government that they have enough money to support themselves for the time they plan to be there before getting a visa….the brittish are not the most intelectual of the white race, but they do think better than zuma who allow any poor bastard to come to mzanzi paradise!

    Looking at all the squatter camps around all towns since 1992, I have reason to believe we have about 50 million from out of africa here in the country that shopuld not be here…no wonder the sewage sustems designed for 60 million can’t handle the load of shit!

    Don’t be afraid to think, it won’t kill you or give you an heaedache lik the sangoma says, it’s good for a man to think, specially before making a fool of yourself on the best blog for 2010!

  147. Old fashion,

    it was actually me who wrote the part about the african pension fund system…somehow something went wrong there… 😉

  148. Catchu l8r flatulator says:

    We all know that the heaven Zama Zama is talking about is not a Christian heaven. The heaven Zama Zama is talking about is the heaven where he stays in power, spends 2 to 300 million a year on plane tickets and cars for his wives, and his bitches and ho’s on the side, 500 million + on his private compound in Nkandla, 100 million on 5 star transport and luxury hotel accommodation, and thirty rand in charitable donations to the national lottery. The whole point is that voting for the ANC lets him stay in heaven, it gets nobody else anywhere. Life is worse now for the majority than under apartheid, and that is a fact. Don’t let that garbled nonsense about more people having electricity fool you. The fact is that people lived better, had food (5% of SA goes to bed hungry as compared with 50% in our neighbour countries and SA is the 3rd most obese population in the world), had education (even bantu eddication is better than the stuff we got now), we had less crime in most parts of the country, we had a functioning civil service, and as unfair as the justice system was, it actually worked. Approval ratings for government in terms of law and order and life satisfaction have declined since 1994 because people know the promises are empty. THe last card in the deck is one of truth – that there is hope. Too bad the ANC has messed that up too because if voting ANC gets me into heaven, I would rather fry because if they run the show there it would be closer to the other place.

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